May 2, 2008
Halifax Jazz & Blues Festival, May 3-4 - The Line-up!
Below is text taken from the program for this weekend’s Halifax Jazz & Blues Festival.
SCHEDULE OF ACTIVITIES
Kevin Bledsoe, Master of Ceremonies
SATURDAY, MAY 3, 2008
1:00 p.m. - Opening Greetings – Kevin Bledsoe
1:30 p.m. – Horn Supreme – David Ruddock
2:00 p.m. – Jazz Ensemble – Appomattox Regional Governors School
3:30 p.m. – Keyboards – Roddy Barnes
4:30 p.m. – Jazz Flo – Flo’s Mellow Mood
5:00 p.m. – Virgin Records – Sharron
5:30 p.m. – Guitar – Zack Artis
6:15 p.m. – Group - A Touch of Charm
7:00 p.m. – Marlow & Marland – “Like Father, Like Son”
SUNDAY, MAY 4, 2008
3:00 p.m. – Opening Selection – Deitra
3:15 p.m. – Band – Mike Gales & The Warriors
4:15 p.m. – Guitar – Jim Adkins
5:00 p.m. – Horn/Vocals – Mike Redmon/Evelyn Quaye
5:45 p.m. – Band – David Chambliss/Milton Johnson
6:30 p.m. – Horn – Randy Nelson
7:15 p.m. – Band – Rob Gray & Friends
______________________
SUPPORTING SPONSORSHIP
Triangle Center for Development
VSU – WVST Radio
PATRON SPONSORSHIP
Third Baptist Church
Zion Baptist Church
Ende Medical Practice
Dr. Dorothy Freeman
Club Char-Les-Manze
Club 17
J. T. Morris & Son
J. M. Wilkerson, Inc
Petersburg Peoples News (pburgpn.net)
Marion Forsyth & Greg Werkheiser
Second Hand Rose
Jet Furniture
Barbara Mosley
GOLD SPONSORSHIP
SILVER SPONSORSHIP
wrjo.net
Petersburgtv.com
OFFICIAL SPONSORSHIP
City of Petersburg
Program design by Patricia S. Miller
______________________
The 2008 Halifax Jazz & Blues Festival Committee would like to take this time to thank all of the wonderful people who have helped make this event a success.
Special thanks to committee members Zack Artis, Robert “Notty Rasta” Brooks, Kevin Bledsoe, Angela Hill, Mary Howard, Michael Jefferson, Ersecelle Miles, Cecil Parham, Malik Stith, Jimmy Walston and Jim Wilson.
None of this could have been done without the enthusiastic support of city management and its agencies, the Departments of Police, Fire, Public Works, Health, Revenue, and Recreation. The guidance in the final stages by Dr. Elsie Jarmon of Risk Management proved invaluable. We are eternally grateful to have capable and competent city employees in our midst.
Many thanks go to our sponsors who have given of their time and money to support this event. In addition to our listed sponsors a special recognition to Club LeVenue, for allowing the committee to hold meetings at their facility. As I have probably omitted names or businesses that were most helpful in this process, I ask that you charge it to my head and not to my heart.
From the Triangle to Old Towne, the preservation of the historical integrity of our community is of utmost importance. Not only are we listening to the music of the past, we are listening to the hopes and aspirations of our community today. As the transformation of Petersburg continues to unfold, we see a magnificent light that shines in the region attracting the “Vision for the Future!!”
Thank You,
Larry “Akin” Smith
Chairperson
FYIs –
Hardcopies of the program/schedule will be available at the festival.
If you’d like to print the line-up prior to heading over, until I can grab a copy of the actual program that I can upload and render downloadable/printable … you should be able to copy/paste the schedule above to, e.g., a Word or text file, and print it from there.
Re: festival location (for those just tuning in): read here.
The Triangle came to life over the weekend, but not many white folk came down, old habit die hard. Hope to see a more diverse crowd to enjoy the great food, music, dancing and fun next year.
Arrange a bluegrass festival if you want whites. Make it latin if you want racially diverse. Might even be able to charge admission if you make it latin.
I heard a bosa nova song from my roof on sat. That’s almost latin.
It’s not a black/white thing, it’s more of a “Is there an act I’m interested in seeing” thing.
I wanted to check out the Governor’s School Jazz group but had a prior commitment.
We did go down there and caught the end of Zack Artis and he was pretty good.
There was a decent sized crowd and I think things can only get better. Like a lot of things, the longer it goes the bigger it will grow.
Was anyone there last year that could tell us if the crowd was larger this year?
As I’ve said before — someone get Bio Ritmo down here, weekly!
“It’s not a black/white thing, it’s more of a “Is there an act I’m interested in seeing” thing.”
I tried pointing that out at length, and was insulted at length, so watch it!
Watch it? Is that a threat, ya gonna cut me.
Ignorance is bliss. Great music, Great food, great company. Art is not a color thing, if anything they transcend the racial divide. The blues inspired an entire generation of rockers. Jazz is not bond by color.
White folk didn’t know about it. That’s what I said. You little B—-.
No bruno, I’ll leave the threats and insults to you.
I told tg to watch out for you, not for you to watch out for me.
The fact that you spun it around says about as much about you as your latest insult does. Maybe you should think about that.
I probably know more about Jazz than you do, but cannot be sure, and doubt you would care.
I’m not sure white folk didn’t know about it, I thought it was well promoted.
I’ll have you know I was part of the last generation that seriously cared about Jazz/blues — both the pioneers, and the adaptors. But I explained this before…
Indeed, art CAN transend, but have you looked at Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck recently? Are Dave Brubeck and Stan Getz even ALIVE anymore?
Anyway, I hope it was a success. It doesn’t take “white” folks to make something a success. It takes revenue.
Kudos to Akin and the rest of the volunteers for bringing the festival together this year! MJ and I were there and caught Mike Gale & The Warriors, who performed for free! Great music, great food/drink, great weather! As Akin said, why can’t we do this more often??
Modesty is Shawn’s strong suite, no doubt. You go boy, tell’em how you taught Sachmo everythin’ he know.
What does looking at Page, Clapton and Beck do for you?
Well different strokes.
Whoops, I step away from the computer for a few hours and I see that things have gotten testy. Bruno, please refrain from further personal attacks on this site, or - I - (your friendly admin) will cut you (or some such thing). I’m sure you can find a way to engage in respectful disagreement (if disagree you must) with your neighbors.
“You go boy, tell’em how you taught Sachmo everythin’ he know.”
See? I understand that you are trying to be funny, but that just doesn’t make any sense. I think the man was dead before I was born. If I were overly boastful, I’d tell you I taught Jay Farrar everything HE knows. I only said I MIGHT know more about Jazz than some guy from Petersburg — hardly a delusion of grandeur, and unlikely to impress anyone.
“What does looking at Page, Clapton and Beck do for you?”
Careful. Uhm, er… I mean, uh… be advised that…. no, er… watch… uh…
You run the risk of offending a whole group of people that I am not a member of, I don’t think that is your intention.
Wait. Maybe it is. Whichever.
Also, if you want to lure people to the halifax triangle, I’m not sure it is wise to associate it with an unnecessary gangland style throw-down (even if it is only on-line) or bigoted comments.
If your intention is merely to vent some racial gripes however, I certainly can relate sometimes, and commend the job you are doing?
BTW Bruno, did you ever see the movie Ghost Dog? It’s one of my recent favorites, and it explores the theme about how cultures are enriched by other cultures, and also how they slowly die out.
Ghost Dog:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KxcNKHyG2Q4&feature=related
Shawn and tg4360,
May I ask you both something. You both said you would have gone if there were acts that interested you.
Which acts, of the ones listed, you are familiar with and have seen previously?
Was it a case that there were acts you rather not waste time seeing because you have heard them before or was it more of a case that since you never heard of any of the acts that you decided you rather not go.
I think TG.. said that he did go, and would have attended more if not for prior commitments. My take is that he was just suggesting a possible alternative explanation to Bruno’s observation in #3.
So this is how it is, shawn gets to go off and I don’t get to say nuthin’. Got it. So now we must make believe that shawn’s references to movies “ghost dog” give him “street cred”. You go boy!
Well, I (still white, last I checked) went for a few hours, and gladly did so. I will also admit to a love for music, despite a long-standing aversion to some forms of jazz (they just make me edgy and unsettled). I really do like most forms of blues. I don’t pretend to be an expert in either jazz or blues. By the way, I don’t like hip-hop, but I see that as more a function of age and taste than a function of race. I like 60’s folk music — now *that’s* an indication of my age!
I’m also unfamiliar with most names that would likely be playing at this festival at its current stage of development. So, the play bill didn’t impress or motivate me (my fault, not the play bill’s). In time, with support, with publicity, with increasing participation and attendance, this festival can grow into a remarkable event.
When I go to an event such as the one this past weekend, I try to do it with as open a mind as possible. I look for entertainment and enjoyment. I found both this weekend, and in a great atmosphere.
Thanks to the organizers, the sponsors, the performers and the attendees!
Well expressed David!!!
“Bruno” — To foster a space that is broadly open and civil, one of the very few limitations I ask of folks is that they not engage in ‘you are a ___’ or similar in the sharing of their various and sundry opinions. (Along those lines, anonymous personal attacks that lack any other substance or merit are likely to be deleted.) Thank you for your understanding.
As for me it’s like this… (and I admit up front that I am NOT your average joe (which is not at all to say BETTER than anyone else just very different))….
Back in the day when I bought albums (LPs I’m dating myself) or CDs I’d never buy one unless there was a good percentage of the tunes on the record that I liked. Only one good track…. I didn’t purchase. Heck, there are very few big name acts that I’d pay to go see and a festival type venue is almost the last in a descending list of preferences. (The absolute best was the night I saw Sara Vaughan in Georgetown. It was Vaughan and a trio of piano, bass and drums.
I was sitting at a table just to the right of the center of the stage and her big toe was literally about 12 inches from my nose. I heard her voice more direct than through the PA system. That was magic.)
I have a very low tolerance for parking, crowding etc so I usually don’t go to festival type events as a rule. If I don’t have a particular group that I’m interested in seeing I’ll probably not go. There’s no attraction for me in the crowd or the venders etc.
I was interested this year in seeing the Governor’s School Jazz band as I played in a high school group myself. We had intended to go catch Flo King as I interviewed her for PPN and still have not had a chance to catch her act. One suggestion that I’d make to the organizers is that on the list of acts that a description of the type of music be slotted in behind the name to give someone a quick read on what the artist is about. If you told me there’d be Delta Blues or big band jazz etc I might have had a better understanding of what would be going on.
I’d have probably gone a little early and stayed a little late in order to catch the bookend acts because I realize I might learn a few things about music that I’ve not heard before.
Sounds almost close minded doesn’t it? But it’s the way I’m wired. Others would be more interested in going because they will be exposed to new things. To each his own.
There are those who would say that we should go and support such events simply because they are community events and need to be supported but I don’t agree with that. The support must be whole hearted and genuine to be lasting and to make such an event successful.
Bruno, why do you have to see things through the filter of color? I was there and didn’t lament that there were not “enough” white people (makes one wonder what the quota should be to make you happy) but that there were not more people and vendors in general and that the setting was not as festive as it could be. I don’t see a bad thing in that, I see room to grow.
Festivals such as this usually start small and can grow into great, world famous events over the years.
Bruno,
Why does this always have to be about my basic lack of worth as a human being?
You may find this very difficult to understand, but “street cred.” would actually damage my professional credibility.
Maybe I was looking for some kind of “art cred.” I thought I was trying to relate to you.
If I was going for street cred, I might have mentioned Bamboozled by spike lee instead — but spike lee is a whiney one, who instead of seeing cultural cross-fertilization, sees nothing but theft and exploitation. That’s why I mentioned “ghost dog.”
If you didn’t see it, fine. I recommend it.
Thank you for asking, zoneiv.
It may be because I just don’t get it and never will.
But in my mind, it is: fatigue with the genres.
Blues is a very limited genre. Sure, the occational young, gifted performer can take the forms and make them uniquely their own:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1OjTspCqvk8
It’s rare. Blues usually sounds warmed-over.
Jazz, as I’ve already related, is gaining prominence in our teaching institutions, it woud seem, in inverse proportion to what the public is willing to pay for it.
A friend of mine bought me “modern day jazz stories” by courtney pine back in the mid-ninties because I was turned on to his (strong) attempts to bring jazz up-to-date. Other than that, I have caused no money, mine or otherwise, to be spent on jazz in decades. Jazz innovation really flared in the sixties and early seventies, and then it just seemed to burn-out.
So, these generalizations of mine kept me from being too interested.
My wife believes she is a jazz-hater. Unfortunately, that is because she associates Jazz with that awful rapid scale meandering that is played after Marketplace on public radio, and primitive early-20th century jazz she hears on “riverwalk jazz” before she turns the radio off.
But she actually does like some jazz that I have played her, just not very much.
I actually did drive by the triangle to check out the scene on my way to do some landscaping behind my office. My wife was actually annoyed with me for doing so (she was THAT uninterested)
So, it had nothing to do with the lineup, venue, or my ignorance of jazz. I can’t speak for TG and certainly not for whites in general, as I have counted several white Jazz musicians as friends in my lifetime. Even so, I have never had to PAY to see jazz since I saw John Mcglaughlin when I was fifteen (he gave guitar lessons to Jimmy Page, you know.)
I might have paid if it was different genres. I mentioned some other genres on another thread and was told to start my own festival, which I found silly, since I am a potential customer, not a music promoter with any particular agenda.
If it MUST BE jazz or blues, I’m not sure it is me with the closed mind. I tend to like innovation personally, which is associated always with fresher genres.
I played bass in a band for a little while. When a friend who was actually an accomplished musician politely asked me how that was going, I told him “I’m really just a glorified tonal metronome..” he told me “don’t worry, you’ll always have THAT job, it’s when you say ‘hey guys, I’ve been learning some really neat jazz progressions…’ that a “group meeting” will have to happen…”
As someone pointed out, there IS a market for Jazz festivals. I grew up near the Newport and Montreal ones, so I’m aware. If my words ring true, listen. If they don’t, ignore them.
There IS such a thing as “revival,” and I conceed that I may just be too old to notice if one is happening in Jazz, since I don’t even pay attention to the music I still listen too anymore.
tg,
“There are those who would say that we should go and support such events simply because they are community events and need to be supported but I don’t agree with that. The support must be whole hearted and genuine to be lasting and to make such an event successful.”
Ditto.
I learned in my early twenties that you shouldn’t go to see your friends play out in order to “support” them. You really aren’t doing anyone any favors. They really need to have a genuine experience trying to sing for their supper. A lack of interest should bring a “back to the drawing-board” response until they find something that resonates, or find themselves reconsidering college.
That goes for ALL the arts, not just the performing ones.
I must echo Chip’s sentiments … thanks and major kudos to those who put the festival together! Great amounts of effort were visible, and, I believe, paid off in a heightened sense of community.
I’m fortunate in that music, especially live music, of any genre appeals to me! I could have stayed for hours …
Akin, your message about each one of us taking responsibility for life in our city was well-stated!
My mild disappointment that I didn’t see diversity in the audience has generated both the moderator and participants in distain and mockery. Beat up the black guy, go head draw the chalk outline. Teach me manners.
My comments are far less vitriolic than my antagonists, as if I haven’t learned my place online. The high handedness of this thread is remarkable.
Race is a factor even here. Our jails are full of African-American men, our schools are failing African-American youths, and for jazz I’m suppose to put on some filter. There is an US and THEM in this.
Blacks attend Nostalgia Fest en masse, reciprocity would have been nice.
The Jazz Festival didn’t draw the diversity I would have like from other well established Jazz venues.
I remember the days when Jazz festivals in Newport RI and Monterey Jazz were not kindly looked upon, because they attracted black people.
I said we need better publicity, that’s all and I get all this flak. Peace OUT
Your opinions are welcome Bruno. Ad hominem snipes are not. If you are not happy with this very limited request, I invite you to start a website of your own.
For the record, I have no idea what color you are (I take it from #25 that you are Black?). Note that in the past I’ve pulled the comments of persons that I believed to be white. (And they didn’t like it too much either.)
Oh, and I attended the event BTW. Even got up there and danced to the salsa beat when it came up. (I *heart* salsa, but that’s my own personal wiring that I don’t expect all to share.)
> Ok that’s just about enough of the “beat up on the black guy” crap.
>
> HOW THE HECK CAN I KNOW WHAT COLOR YOU ARE!?!?!
>
> The only thing I KNOW is that you have a huge chip on your shoulder and can’t see past color. The only thing I’m beating up on is your racist attitude.
>
> I quote you, “White folk didn’t know about it. That’s what I said. You little B—-.” The “it” being jazz and blues.
>
> THAT is the most racist thing on this whole thread. How dare you paint with such a broad brush. Granted jazz and blues have their roots in both inner city and country blacks but there are plenty of players of other races who made their mark in those music forms.
>
> I quote you again, “Race is a factor even here. Our jails are full of African-American men, our schools are failing African-American youths, and for jazz I’m suppose to put on some filter. There is an US and THEM in this.
>
> Here?? meaning on PPN? That’s rich… you are text on a page. There’s no color, no voice inflection, no accents, only your words and what they mean.
>
> WHY Are blacks in jail?? because of skin color??? No, it’s because they have commited CRIMES. That’s self destruction. Why are black children failing? Because they don’t have teachers who will teach them properly for one, and there is a black inner city cultural pressure to NOT be “white” and learn. Once again, self destructive.
>
> You can only have “us and them” if you continue to think that way. Most of us have gotten past that.
>
> Why does there have to be “diversity” for something to be good and WHY do you have to dwell on it? I suspect that were whites to pack the festival you’d take the other tack and complain about the whites taking over a “black” thing. This is the same crap we hear about “Gentrification” where people start to fix up a neighborhood and the people who have let it run down start to complain.
>
> YOU yourself are putting yourself in a box by relating everything to skin color or a lack of “diversity.”
>
> Get over it.
>
And….
Since WHEN is nostalgia fest a WHITE thing?
Color me stupid then because I didn’t even realize I was supposed to NOTICE the number of BLACK faces there!
By the way… I’m not exactly lilly white myself and have been on the wrong end of the racist and bigoted stick. I don’t let that cause a huge chip on my shoulder. It only serves to allow me to recognize the ignorance required to be a racist when I see it.
Peace out indeed.
Pushed a button have I? Why all the yelling.
This isn’t a public forum? I can’t say forbidden words? Ad hominem attacks? On who?
What of the stereotypes foisted on black people and the analysis of people who haven’t taught in poor school districts. The issues are clear race, poverty, crime and the ensuing helplessness of people who don’t believe that history impacts the living.
Again, I wished more whites whould have come to the Jazz Festival. We will never get over the racial divide until people actually get to know each others cultures, voluntarily. It’s a shame that such a comment would merit such anger.
Let us quote and attempt to find meaning, “What of the stereotypes foisted on black people and the analysis of people who haven’t taught in poor school districts. The issues are clear race, poverty, crime and the ensuing helplessness of people who don’t believe that history impacts the living.”
Taking the first sentence: “What of the stereotypes foisted on black people and the analysis of people who haven’t taught in poor school districts.” What does this MEAN?
Who spoke in or of stereotypes? What does the second part of the sentence have to do with the first part? Are you implying that persons who have not taught in poor school districts cannot know about nor comment on conditions there? Your meaning is unclear and no point is made. No I haven’t taught in inner city school systems but I’ve known and talked to people who have. I’ve also read many accounts by black people themselves who related how difficult it is to become educated in the inner city when the peer pressure is against education.
Second sentence: “The issues are clear race, poverty, crime and the ensuing helplessness of people who don’t believe that history impacts the living.” Again, what does this MEAN? Assuming you intended a comma after “clear”, are you saying that the poor crime ridden helpless people don’t think that history impacts them?
I’m not tearing apart your sentences to make a point about you, but more to attempt to understand your meaning so that I might respond.
You have not responded in any substantive way to what I said about your own racist views.
You said, “Again, I wished more whites would have come to the Jazz Festival. We will never get over the racial divide until people actually get to know each others cultures, voluntarily. It’s a shame that such a comment would merit such anger.”
Yes what you said originally was fairly innocuous but it shows the difference between us. I attended nostalgia fest and did not notice the ratio of minorities to majorities. It was not a factor in any way. You, however, had to not only notice, but comment.
Sure it’s great when people seek out different cultures from their own. But it’s NOT racist if you are not interested.
“Ad hominem attacks? On who?” Please refer to #8 above, your last statement. Opinions are welcomed. Challenges to opinions are welcomed. That last statement is not. If this isn’t clear, feel free to send me an email (see the ‘contact’ link at the top of the page) and we can discuss.
“My mild disappointment that I didn’t see diversity in the audience has generated both the moderator and participants in distain and mockery. Beat up the black guy, go head draw the chalk outline. Teach me manners.”
See, Bruno, that is what is so great about online forums. We are just words here. I assumed you were “black”, but wasn’t sure, since your screen name reminds me of that terrible bluesman — the young Bruce Willis.
Even though you and others that I assume fit your complective self-description feel the need to attack me personally, I would be sadder if you completely left the forum than the sadness I feel that you feel the need to attack me personally.
I realize this may motivate you to stop posting. :)
If being “black” is a constant sense of being aggrieved and being obsessed by race, and assuming that whites have little to do other than thinking up ways to hurt black people, you certainly fit that desciption in your writing. That is not MY idea of what being black is, but people like you just may change my mind before I die, if my interactions, even online, are so negative.
I said that I sense a general feeling of disinterest in Jazz and blues amoung white people that I feel myself. That does not mean I do not listen to reggae, or music from africa. Or that I don’t listen to mo-town or barry white.
Whites in the US and europe celebrated jazz in most of it’s forms for decades. Many famous white musicians of the 50s 60s and 70s were OBSESSED by the virtuosios of the origninal blues.
It seems those days have past. Almost all creative african americans have moved on from these genres, into others, and whites have too.
There is no racial agenda, bruno.
You and others are engaging in “shoot the messenger” behavior: I tell you what I percieve to be the truth from my vantage point. You and others call me every negative thing you can concieve of: punk, delusional, unhip, arrogant, deviant, sour…
Instead of just sticking to: “That isn’t what *I* see.”
And now you whine that I am a racist.
Brenda pulled at least on post from me on an unrelated thread bruno. I made a comment that was meant to be funny, but could’ve unintenitonally offended some people. It was probably wise that she pulled it.
“Blacks attend Nostalgia Fest en masse, reciprocity would have been nice.”
I was at the last nostalgia fest.
Three things:
1. nostalgia fest is NOT “white.” (though “nostalgia” fest may not be the smartest name for the event, as many african americans have little reason to feel “nostalgia” for old dixie.
2. It didn’t look to me like there were many people — black or white, brown or yellow, that were there merely to “support” nostalgia fest or old town. It think most people came because it was free to walk around.
3. Nostalgia fest, from what I have seen, is not really there to celebrate any particular cultural facet of american history. It is there to make money for old town businesses.
What I think I have learned from you and atkin s. is that what to me is criticism of the wisdom of propping-up art forms that are in decline (and believe me, I am equally harsh when it comes to shakespeare and the ballet — even MORE SO) is felt as a personal attack by some people (perhaps many), and if they happen to be of a different racial background, they may even see it as racist.
I really can’t help that.
What I do find offensive bruno, more so than the personal attacks is the complaining that it is because you are black that people find your arguements weak. None of us are “white” on this forum.
Just because racism has existed and does exist does not mean I am a villian. I have done nothing personally to hurt people with a darker complexion than me, other than argue with them in universities, work places, and now online. I do it because I care, but it may not be helpful. It may be harmful. I don’t know. It IS dialog, even if it is very strained dialog.
I have never punched a black person.
I have never cheated a black person in business.
I have never destroyed property belonging to a black person.
Meanwhile, in my life, I was jumped by five blacks, several of which were older than me, when I was in seventh grade. I was punched in the face by three blacks when I walked down the wrong block in my early twenties. I have lived above black people who would NOT turn their music down at 2 a.m. when I needed to get up early for work. I have shouldered extra loads at work because of tardiness and shirking by black co-workers. I always try to have a smile or at least a friendly word for black folks who I encounter alone in public areas (unless they look very shady), yet I have gotten WAY than my share of sullen glares. I was surrounded by a group of about six black teenagers after getting off a bus with an attractive girl who I was taking a class with.
And, of course, I have always suffered verbal abuse and posturing from blacks I have tried to have a dialog about race with, which explains why many white people wisely flee from such situations.
Yet I have tudored black college students, and pleaded with black high school students to try and do better. I have volunteered for organizations that help many black people.
Does my litany of personal victimization by black people make me a racist? They all happened, along with a long list of property that has been stolen from me when living in predominantely black neighborhoods.
I have had white tenants, and a black one. The black one broke the huge beveled plate-glass window on the front door that had been there for at least 70 years, and, later, the nineteenth century front window — both because I believe his girlfriend would lock him out occasionally (per the neighbors)
Instead of replacing the window, he had the audacity to ask when *I* was going to replace it.
No, the fact that things happened to me by people who happened to be black could give me an excuse to hate black people, and maybe to think that it is BECAUSE they are black that makes them so willing to victimize me.
But I have known too many great people with black skin, I know the history of the country, and the world. I know that culture is the victim, and the victimizer, not skin-color.
But, in this, I am truely in the minority, esp. when dealing with african americans, who seem to think that the son of a polish immigrant, whose people have been equally victimized and colonizied by other ethnic groups, is just as “guility” of hurting blacks as ol’ Jeff Davis was.
That’s called racism.
I am sorry if you have experienced injustice at the hands of whites.
Understand that I have experienced PLENTY of injustice at the hands of blacks, and still intend to engage with them, for a better petersburg, because we all have the same potential inside us.
“Again, I wished more whites whould have come to the Jazz Festival. We will never get over the racial divide until people actually get to know each others cultures, voluntarily. It’s a shame that such a comment would merit such anger.”
Uhmmmm… we have Eminem for that. He helps us understand. He and his friends are making $$ millions.
Jazz is hardly a black thing anymore. It’s more a nerdy white thing, these days.
“I’ve also read many accounts by black people themselves who related how difficult it is to become educated in the inner city when the peer pressure is against education.”
Now compare that to urban Jewish Ghettos that were even more cramped, and often as poor, where the jews were MORE educated than the surrounding white europeans or new yorkers and you see it aint the conditions, it’s the culture.
Same with certain asian ghettos.
Bruno says, “Race is a factor even here….There is an US and THEM in this.” Clearly, and from his own mouth.
A quote attributed to Sigmund Freud: “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.” It saddens me that there must be an “US and THEM” interpretation of what was simply an event that brought some of us together for some fun. By the way (remember, I’m the still-white guy from an earlier posting), I don’t feel particularly interested in going to Nostalgia Fest (and have always found the name pretty creepy). Bruno, I can’t comprehend how Nostalgia Fest is supposed to by MY event and the Jazz and Blues festival is supposed to be YOURS (all caps, not for emphasis, but only to reference the earlier “US and THEM” remark).
Is someone keeping track of how many of THEIR events I attend and of how many of MY events THEY attend? I’m not much into competitive sports, but could I get my
current score, please?
Bruno, I am aware that we don’t live in a color-blind society. It doesn’t slap me in the face every day and I don’t claim that it does. But without getting into the justified war stories comparing how much your ancestors suffered to how much mine did (and mine did, too), my dream would be for you and me to be able to make just a little more progress in how we live and work together today and into the future.
Taking this conversation in another direction…
PetersburgTV now has a bunch of links where you can see various of the performances. (Zack Artis, Flo King, Roddy Barnes, and ARGS students, to name a few — some of these have PSAs at the front end, so don’t think you are at the wrong link, well, unless I goofed of course…).
Wow! I had a great time. Diversity was alive and well. Unity was apparent. City was fully supportive. Community was uplifted, and IT DID NOT RAIN.
Nothing is perfect, so stay tuned for more growth and development. See you at the Literacy Festival at the end of May.
Amen, and please post info on the Literacy Festival!
“Wow! I had a great time. Diversity was alive and well. Unity was apparent. City was fully supportive. Community was uplifted, and IT DID NOT RAIN.”
Well, the last three seem to have been true. Maybe the others were too.
I must say I certainly admire your intitiative and organizational energies for pulling your part of this off.
Now, if I could only trick you into making it a hip-hop festival next year… WE’LL ALL BE RICH! Bruno can buy a shiny new Saxophone, I can speculate in sawdust futures, and brenda can hire someone to monitor PPN for civility!
Funny, G. Ashleigh Moody thinks I’ve got Political Correctness Syndrome, and bruno thinks I am a raving racist. You are probably closest with your sarcasm diagnosis, …but if I had to describe myself, it would probably be with that old biblical adage: “a fool uttereth all his mind”
Good luck next year.
Me spit my beverage into the computer screen.:-)
Well, this is all certainly very entertaining dialogue. All I want to add is that I did go (and I’m not even going to say what color I am because it certainly DOES NOT MATTER, nor relate to the purpose of this post). I did enjoy the music, I did eat and drink, I did buy a T-shirt! I’ll go again next year! WRJO posted video online - http://www.wrjo.net/ .
I haven’t been able to get back here to see how Shawn and TG responded to my question but wow….look what I have missed (smile).
To Shawn & TG:
Thanks for your thought out answer to my question.
To TG:
Like you, I rarely like going to events because of crowds, parking etc. On the other hand, this is such a small event, you can pretty easily find parking within walking distance and to be honest, there isn’t much of a crowd to fight. (smile)
To Shawn:
I think you are getting to wrapped up on the title and your definitions of Jazz and Blues. You have stated in another thread that “white people don’t like jazz/blues”. Like in the previous thread, I still disagree with this statement but that has been beaten to death. It is funny how some of the acts that were involved play to predominately white crowds when they are playing at various clubs around the area.
I am probably like your wife. I really have a distaste for the wild jazz that sound like chopped up noise to me. I cannot appreciate it. You could not pay me enough to hear this type of jazz.
This said, the music at this event was more or less jazzy and bluesy oriented and NOT what you may expect to find at the Newport Jazz Festival but it is music that most find relaxing or fun enough to get up and dance.
I was unable to attend this year but I went last year and I do know some of the artists involved.
This is my take.
Rob Gray - rock, blues, funk. Rob plays to predominately white crowds when I have seen him but he can appeal to ALL races whose musical tastes and exposure does not center around only rap. I consider him a friend. You can help but want to get up and dance when he is playing. Except of a couple of original pieces, people know the songs he plays which can range from War, Jimi Hendrix, etc. to even doing Marshall Tucker Band covers with a funk, blues twist to it.
Appomattox Regional Governors School - Traditional Jazz (not the wild obscure stuff).
Jim Adkins - I consider his style George Bensonish type playing guitar jazz.
Zack Artis - A truly nice young person who can play almost anything on a quitar that ranges from blues, funk, rock. Some of his influences are Eric Clapton, Stevie Ray Vaughn, etc. He is playing at Longstreets tonight. Sometimes he just play acoustic quitar. Sometimes he has a guy known as “Sir Charles” (older guy) who will come in with a harmonica and they will play some down and dirty blues.
Mike Redmon/Evelyn Quaye. Mike routinely plays saxaphone at the Dixie or Marias. He plays some old standards. Evelyn, a local artist, will get up and sing with a lot of local bands either jazz or blues.
Are we talking about top jazz and blues? Nope, but we are talking about nice local talent that can be enjoyed by all types of people.
With regards to the lack of diversity. Well last year there certain was. I was there for two days last year and was disappointed by the lack of white people showing up. I was not there this year but by all reports, the same can be said.
For anyone to say it is racially (i.e. Bruno) is an over the top statement but on the other hand, on the other extreme, for anyone to deny that racism is involved is just as wrong and we have had these two extremes expressed in this thread.
Personally I feel the location is the drawback. There is still a stigma surrounding Petersburg. People in Richmond really have a poor impression of Petersburg and always have. They are shocked by what we have going on down here once you get them down here.
There is a stigma of the downtown area even among long time Petersburg and surrounding area residents. This doesn’t even get into the stigma surrounding Halifax Street.
I submit that if the same event was held in Old Towne, you would have had a more diverse crowd. Is it racism that is fueling the racism? I do not believe so. That said, there may be a fear making a trip to Halifax Street. Whether this fear or not is justified can be debated forever just like there is a fear to even come into the downtown area.
There is still a racial divide in this city no matter what liberal sentiments are offered up. I have asked people why the black community largely ignore “Friday at the Arts”. Is this viewed as a “white event”?
With regards to:
“There are those who would say that we should go and support such events simply because they are community events and need to be supported but I don’t agree with that. The support must be whole hearted and genuine to be lasting and to make such an event successful”
I really disgree with this statement. Why not support an event in its infancy that could enhance the community? To me, whatever enhances the community is a good thing for EVERYBODY. I cannot count how many events I have been to that I get not get any direct benefit because it was just “the right thing to do” whether it is personal or community related.
Activity breeds activity. If it is seen that this is an event with a diverse crowd, then people who may have fear may give it a try and the event will grow. The more the event grows, then we all benefit.
I say…why not help support an event just starting out. Once it gets established, then you can decided not to go.
I like going to any community event because I see people I know and meet new people. This is a way a community can come together. We certainly aren’t together today.
Next year, I hope all will consider going to this event. It is a nice event with a nice crowd. We want this event to grow. We need this event for so many reasons as well as the other events the city has. We want people to come down to Petersburg and see the exciting things going on. We want them to bring their money in and join the excitement. This is how we can all prosper.
“You have stated in another thread that “white people don’t like jazz/blues”. ”
Did I say it like that? If so, that was pretty dumb of me.
My mother likes jazz.
For background music at my wedding reception, the DJ played light Coltrane.
Our dance was to Madeleine Peyroux’s version of “dance me to the end of love”
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pl-cVgAU8K8
And I could go on with little anecdodes about whites enjoying Jazz.
What I was trying to say was that: “whites enjoy jazz a LOT less than they used to, even moreso than elsewhere”
“With regards to the lack of diversity. Well last year there certain was. I was there for two days last year and was disappointed by the lack of white people showing up. I was not there this year but by all reports, the same can be said.
For anyone to say it is racially (i.e. Bruno) is an over the top statement but on the other hand, on the other extreme, for anyone to deny that racism is involved is just as wrong and we have had these two extremes expressed in this thread.
Personally I feel the location is the drawback. There is still a stigma surrounding Petersburg. People in Richmond really have a poor impression of Petersburg and always have. They are shocked by what we have going on down here once you get them down here.
There is a stigma of the downtown area even among long time Petersburg and surrounding area residents. This doesn’t even get into the stigma surrounding Halifax Street.
I submit that if the same event was held in Old Towne, you would have had a more diverse crowd. Is it racism that is fueling the racism? I do not believe so. That said, there may be a fear making a trip to Halifax Street. Whether this fear or not is justified can be debated forever just like there is a fear to even come into the downtown area.
There is still a racial divide in this city no matter what liberal sentiments are offered up. I have asked people why the black community largely ignore “Friday at the Arts”. Is this viewed as a “white event”? ”
You are right to a certain extent. But please try to remember that the people who are trying to attract people to old town worked for years to clean that place up. They poured money into the built environment, and they made it safe.
Has nothing to do with race. Whites shun crummy looking downtowns all over west virginia, for example.
I realize the history of Petersburg plays a role, but when people like Bruno start with the racial hostility, a person like me who feels pretty neutral about all that crap isn’t about to go looking for where he hangs out. Imagine a guy from Ghana moves to a part of the south where some cracker starts accusing him of being a criminal or lazy, or bad at math, just because of his skin color. That’s how people like bruno make me feel, when I let them.
I have high expectations of people from all races, that’s what gets me in trouble, because some people like to hide behind things like skin color, or ethnicity.
As I always said, take what I have to say for what you think it is worth. I was just trying to say that Jazz has a very limited cool factor in this day and age, and youth have more choices than ever before.
““There are those who would say that we should go and support such events simply because they are community events and need to be supported but I don’t agree with that. The support must be whole hearted and genuine to be lasting and to make such an event successful”
I really disgree with this statement. Why not support an event in its infancy that could enhance the community? To me, whatever enhances the community is a good thing for EVERYBODY. I cannot count how many events I have been to that I get not get any direct benefit because it was just “the right thing to do” whether it is personal or community related.”
If someone opened a restruant downtown that only served fried food, or a lebanese restruant that featured a terrible cook, I wouldn’t eat there just because it was in old town.
If a really innovative hip-hopper
started playing out in petersburg and really started generating buzz amongst the community, I might even PAY to check him out, even if I had to put on a disguise and go to Alzena’s.
I think location has something to do with trying to jump-start at the Triangle its own transformation, celebrating or otherwise drawing attention to the history of that particular area, and similar?
Related, but different: Akin has co-authored a book on the history of the Triangle / the Avenue (see comment #10).
“I think location has something to do with trying to jump-start at the Triangle its own transformation, celebrating or otherwise drawing attention to the history of that particular area, and similar? ”
Maybe that’s my problem. I don’t celebrate history. I am from an area where ethnic history helps keep people apart, and gives people an excuse to feel proud of the achievements of people long dead.
I also don’t believe in sacred ground. I have been to places where truely amazing things happened, and felt like I was just any old place.
I’m not very suggestible.
What makes old town cool to me are the buildings, not that some ag products were once traded there.
Brenda,
I do understand the significance and history of the triangle area and the reason they are holding this event there. I fully support it. My statement was made as a reason that white people did not come out to this event.
Shawn,
You analogy of a single restaurant is not really valid. You are comparing what a single business is trying to do with what a segment of the community is trying to do.
“You are right to a certain extent. But please try to remember that the people who are trying to attract people to old town worked for years to clean that place up. They poured money into the built environment, and they made it safe.”
I did not feel unsafe attending the festival last year so I do not know the point you are trying to make. The point I was trying to make is that the area does have a stigma attached to it. Again, there are people who feel it is unsafe to go anywhere in downtown Petersburg.
“Has nothing to do with race. Whites shun crummy looking downtowns all over west virginia, for example.”
I am sorry but this is a rather silly statement since ALL races will avoid crummy looking downtowns if they have the means to. Those who do not have the means are simply forced to endure it.
“What makes old town cool to me are the buildings, not that some ag products were once traded there.”
Have you checked out the old Realto Theater? Talk about a potentially cool building.
“I also don’t believe in sacred ground. I have been to places where truely amazing things happened, and felt like I was just any old place.”
This is a starting point (and all things start this way) to bring attention to the area and perhaps revitalize it.
By the way, I remember when there were massage parlors (non-thereaupeutic) in Old Towne and the Bluebird theater showed XXX rated movies as well as an Adult Book Store almost next door to it back in the 70s. Not too long ago, there was a head shop on Bank Street in the very same building that was shown being refurbished in another thread.
Change have to start somewhere doesn’t it?
“I did not feel unsafe attending the festival last year so I do not know the point you are trying to make. The point I was trying to make is that the area does have a stigma attached to it. Again, there are people who feel it is unsafe to go anywhere in downtown Petersburg.
“Has nothing to do with race. Whites shun crummy looking downtowns all over west virginia, for example.”
I am sorry but this is a rather silly statement since ALL races will avoid crummy looking downtowns if they have the means to. Those who do not have the means are simply forced to endure it.”
Okay shawn again:
Of course ALL races will avoid crummy looking downtowns, here and elsewhere, if they have. Of course it WAS safe the week end of the event (and, I feel safe walking through the area, but not esp. uplifted)
You say there is a stigma associated with the area. That is true as far as that area is pretty much dominated by idiots who live in group homes, boarding houses, and the people who are attracted by all the charity and services that are dispensed on that part of Halifax, and hence, there is some RATIONAL negative feelings about the place, what you call a stigma.
Stigmas usually come from somewhere.
And yes, there are still people who still feel everywhere in petersburg is unsafe. They are wrong, and people are trying to change their minds (to gain access to their $$, of course) — but those perceptions came from somewhere, and I think you did a good job explaining some of that.
Were they getting a lot of upper-middle class african americans from richmond going to the Jazz-Fest? Or were most of the people there from Petersburg. Unless there were LOTS of blacks form outside of petersburg, and ones that aren’t particularly enamoured with jazz/blues at that, I think it is a little mean-spirited to attribute a lack of whites present to racism or irrational fear.
I certainly HOPE the triangle is revitalized. Atkin S. implied that it would be unacceptable to him if it was revitalized without some kind of respect to the area’s Jazz history.
Other than the built environment, I could really care less. W.C. Handy didn’t live there, so you can’t really put a statue of him there. Lady day may have played there, and george washington may have slept there, but that hardly makes a place special, as those folks got around.
Shawn Said “You say there is a stigma associated with the area. That is true as far as that area is pretty much dominated by idiots who live in group homes, boarding houses, and the people who are attracted by all the charity and services that are dispensed on that part of Halifax, and hence, there is some RATIONAL negative feelings about the place, what you call a stigma.”
Yet another overstatement of fact and gross generalization.
“I certainly HOPE the triangle is revitalized. Atkin S. implied that it would be unacceptable to him if it was revitalized without some kind of respect to the area’s Jazz history.
Other than the built environment, I could really care less.”
I think it would bring a rather unique aspect to Petersburg if revitalized with respect to its history just like “Old Towne” is a unique and interesting aspect for the local area.
“I think it is a little mean-spirited to attribute a lack of whites present to racism or irrational fear.”
Well you have overstated what I have written and then you accuse me of being “mean spirited”. I never wrote that the reason white people didn’t show up was because they are “racist”.
May I ask how long have you lived in Petersburg? Do you really think you know about the prevailing mentality when it comes to the Halifax Street by those who live in Petersburg and the surrounding areas?
You are dismissive that racism and/or “irrational fear” were contributing factors when it comes to whites not showing up at the festival. While certainly not the only reasons, to be totally dismissive shows that one is simply naive.
Challege:
Was there a single Jazz performer in the seventies, period, that had the charasima, the presence, or the wonderful hair of Phil Lynott?
http://flickr.com/photos/eob/144425917/in/set-72057594116655817/
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TehFZ38kt6o&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Kt2gs9XtqiA&feature=related
Mark Knopfler felt your pain even in the seventies, when he wrote this song about Jazz’s demise that he saw even then:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=z2nQZPC2uTs&feature=related
(check the understated solo at the end)
huh, I hadn’t ever listened that closely to the lyrics of that song before (referring to Sultans of Swing).
Post #47, just who are you calling idiots? What do you propose to do with said idiots? Why do you disdain charity? Have you heard that faith, hope and charity are the greatest attributes this world has to offer and that the greatest of these is charity? Do you disagree?
You suggest that you love the buildings, but abhor the ethnic history of people, it even causes division and separation in your neck of the woods.
To the Rodney King question of “Can we all just get along?” I have come to the conclusion that the answer is no.
The festival was developed to bring attention to the area and it has done exactly that, it has inspired and uplifted many, if you were not one of them, stop hating.
Don’t try to “trick” anybody into organizing a hip hop festival, go on and organize one your “get down” self. Many folk will come to it and many wont give a flying duck. One thing is certain, you will have spent more time doing something that you would like to see happen, as opposed to spending so much time talking about something that you could do without…… which seems just a little idiotic.
There should be clean, caring institutions for those who are functionally disabled. There should be short-term facilities for those experiencing temporary social & economic problems. But, it is not charity for slum lords to rent filthy, unsafe houses nor for people to live in illegal group homes not up to code. Not much faith or hope can be generated in these conditions.
“Post #47, just who are you calling idiots? What do you propose to do with said idiots? Why do you disdain charity? Have you heard that faith, hope and charity are the greatest attributes this world has to offer and that the greatest of these is charity? Do you disagree?”
I give to charity. I MAY have given more of my time and money to it than you, for all you know. A lot of it has gone abroad, but a significant portion has gone here. But, like Oprah, I have questioned the wisdom of helping some people in this country.
I believe there are such things as idiots. I guess you have never used the word in your life.
I guess to folks like you, the only idiots are the people in power.
You are changing the subject. I thought the subject was racism, or jazz.
I guess you can’t criticize a criminal in this town if the person has a darker skin tone than the criticizer.
Can’t someone criticize someone’s incompetence? Someone’s criminality? Is that off limits?
More importantly, does avoiding negativity always have to be equated with racism in some people’s minds?
Obama said this country has never had a real dialog about race. What he should have said is we have never had a real dialog about racism. I am trying to have that dialog. Racism is one thing and one thing only: the belief that a race is inferior because of genetic traits. The belief that a group of people are born with an inablity to dance would be an example of this, esp. when members of the group that are supposedly able to dance, who clearly cannot “shake it” competently are ignored.
But you can’t make racism anything you want it to be. If you have a tendency to snarl at people, and they back away from you — you can’t call that racism, for just one example. Yet, I’ve met many people who do call it racism. God knows what they say when I am not around…
The list goes on.
“To the Rodney King question of “Can we all just get along?” I have come to the conclusion that the answer is no.”
Please do not let the possiblity that WE, shawn and atkin, MAY not be able to get along, make you give up on ANYTHING. I admit I am being deliberately provocative to promote REAL dialog, but understand the danger of shutting down dialog by going too far.
Rodney King is a criminal. That part of the story didn’t escape you, did it?
I have always been annoyed with the guy. The man was little more than a criminal until he was also the victim of police brutality, yet SOME people tried to elevate him to the status of a minor Martin Luther King, even though the only laws MLK broke NEEDED breaking.
If you admire Rodney King, and don’t think we can get along, I just have to say I am glad I am not a Korean running a business in your neighborhood.
“After the riots King was awarded $3.8 million in a civil case, and used some of the money to start a hip hop music label, Straight Alta-Pazz Recording Company.[8] He subsequently moved to Rialto, California. King also made a cameo on an episode of BET’s ComicView.
He was arrested again for spousal assault in 1999. In 2001, he was then ordered to undergo a year of drug treatment after pleading guilty to three counts of being under the influence of PCP and one of indecent exposure.[9]
On August 27, 2003, he was arrested again on similar charges as in 1991. It is alleged that King was speeding, ran a red light while under the influence of alcohol, failed to yield to police officers, and then slammed his SUV into a house, breaking his pelvis.[10]”
Try not to get angy, but it might say something negative to people like me that you would quote such a man. I’m serious. Please try to understand that. I have tried hard to understand where you are comming from. It makes little more sense to me than I make to you.
I’m also glad I’m not a policeman that has to keep such people in check.
“Don’t try to “trick” anybody into organizing a hip hop festival, go on and organize one your “get down” self.”
I was trying to be funny. Kinda like you with your sourcasm comments, except I was trying to be self-depricating. I’ll admit I have no idea what you mean by my “get down” self, but I assume it is sarcastic.
“One thing is certain, you will have spent more time doing something that you would like to see happen, as opposed to spending so much time talking about something that you could do without…… which seems just a little idiotic.”
Perhaps good advice.
But it is possible that you just have no idea what I am trying to do here with my spare moments.
In my mind at least, I am trying to change things for the better, by engaging in “straight talk.” Straight talk is not always correct, or wise.
I realize that.
But when someone keeps quiet when there are murmurings of ["yeah, the White Man didn't come to a Jazz festival in the middle of a bunch of crumbling buildings that are often the havens of drug addicts because he is nothing more than a stupid racist, and never will be anything else."]*, for fear of turning people like you into extremists, then little REAL communication happens.
But I have no desire to turn you into an extremist, and I’m sure you don’t want to turn me into one either.
You never answered my question of whether you had ever read the lyrics of the orignal blues masters. My comment refering to the orginal Jazz scenes being totally run by organized crime and being the entertainment to cover dope and numbers rackets was totally ignored by you after you said Hip-Hop was not “family-friendly.”
You are a historian of the triangle, tell me if the scene was any different than in Harlem or Kansas City.
I am just trying to make the community a better place, through my own prizm of how that is done. I might have some clue of how that is done, but since I am a hater, I guess it’s not likely.
My advice to you would be: Don’t let the haters get you down.
* Words exagerated to show how *I* read certain comments, not an exact quote.
One more thing, Atkin. It probably isn’t your car that is getting its windows broken by the alleged “idiots” for a stick of gum. You might be a little less quick to judge if it were.
“But, it is not charity for slum lords to rent filthy, unsafe houses nor for people to live in illegal group homes not up to code. Not much faith or hope can be generated in these conditions.”
Quoted FTW!
By the way atkin, your appearance is eerily similar to Phil Lynott’s:
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1438501974?bclid=1392485110&bctid=1489157326
You can take that as a compliment.
Chuck please try to stay on topic. The subject is: Should Jazz bring prosperity to the triangle? Or “are whites racist numbskulls, or not?” Or, shawn is probably a [misanthrope.] Choose one.
Otherwise take your get down self to another thread of your own making, please.
No Fair! I can’t make/start a thread =(
(which really makes the Baby Jeebus sad)
“Well you have overstated what I have written and then you accuse me of being “mean spirited”. I never wrote that the reason white people didn’t show up was because they are “racist”.”
You are not the only person posting here. It’s not fun having the crediblity of what you write questioned because of others’ comments, is it?
“May I ask how long have you lived in Petersburg?”
On and off since 2003.
“Do you really think you know about the prevailing mentality when it comes to the Halifax Street by those who live in Petersburg and the surrounding areas?”
Yes.
“You are dismissive that racism and/or “irrational fear” were contributing factors when it comes to whites not showing up at the festival. While certainly not the only reasons, to be totally dismissive shows that one is simply naive.”
Or is familiar with the area.
Apparently, a man was shot at a “charitable” club in that part of town yesterday. Even though I stated I have been charitable in past, don’t try to blame me. I had nothing to do with it.
Oppps! I am showing my bigotry and fearful nature again. I should just keep my mouth shut.
After all, it’s my fault that man was shot. Even if I lived in europe, it would still be my fault. But it’s even more my fault now that I live in petersburg, what with all the dispair I am causing.
I shoulda stayed in rural new york state, where I understand things.
You were being too kind by calling me naive.
“No Fair! I can’t make/start a thread =(
(which really makes the Baby Jeebus sad)”
Hey! You’re right!
You saw talladega nights? I was worried I was laughing too loud in that theatre.
Now, I actually do have to get some work finished during the lunch hour so peace out.
Shawn,
You have lived here a whole 5 years?
Then of course you know all about the nuances of the area and the people. Wow…what on earth was I thinking about when questioning the statements you have made????? Next time, I just need to learn how to consider the source.
Hey now, tangents can add interest or a chuckle or whatever, and really, they don’t keep folks wishing to stay on point from doing so.
re: whether folks can get along or not, I would argue that any two people are likely to find some subjects over which they agree, and some other subjects over which they must agree to differ (even within the same household). I have a feeling that those that differ in this thread have the same overall aims, but differ in the ways they themselves choose to work toward the generally common aims. Thankfully, there’s many ways folks can choose to participate or contribute, in accordance with their own interests or talents. Perhaps there would be less heartburn if 1) folks didn’t expect everyone to turn out at everything, and 2) folks patted each other on the back for those efforts they do make, regardless of whether the efforts are viewed as consistent with someone’s own tastes/preferences/priorities. May the diversity of interests lead to a diversity of options.
God I Love this site!
Post #47 all I asked was who were you calling idiots? In all of the content of your latest post, I did not get an answer. So, I found the answer in your original post, “… idiots who live in group homes, boarding houses, and the people who are attracted by all the charity and services that are dispensed on that part of Halifax,…” My, My, My… what are we going to do with all those people who are attracted to charity and services? Hmmmnn? Maybe we can weed out the frauds and help those who are really in need.
Help me out here. Why are you calling people idiots? Doesn’t that add to the stigma? Couldn’t you be a bit less condescending?
Of course, slumlords and filthy, unsafe houses are not acceptable, post #52 but let us not punish those who can not help themselves because of those slumlords. I am not talking “short-term facilities for those experiencing temporary social & economic problems”, I am talking about mentally retarded and metally ill human beings, who according to federal and state standards should not be referred to as “idiots” post #47. They will, for the rest of their natural lives need the clean and caring services of others, that post #52 spoke of, without being called idiots.
“You never answered my question of whether you had ever read the lyrics of the orignal blues masters.”
Sorry Post #53 for not answering your earlier question, but no, I did not read the lyrics of the original blues masters.
I am just thinking that getting the lethargic, haven’t done anything on the triangle in thirty years population to give some attention to the process of how things work in the development of the community is something that had some merit.
It could have been gospel, jazz, blues, hip hop, any combination of that, or all of that, I really don’t give a duck. It was primarily local musicians who had the guts to get out there and participate without trying to analyze the crap out of what color of people came to wet their beaks at the well of opportunity to move forward.
I believe all of us here at PPN share the intentions to do good things in Petersburg and the region, and I certainly am enjoying the chess-like methodology that our communication sometimes take.
“Can we all get along?” has absolutely nothing to do with any admiration for the criminal Rodney King, now there is a true idiot, I only popped the question to underscore that we will never all agree on everything, thanks post #62 for making that clarification, you are among the sheroes.
“Shawn,
You have lived here a whole 5 years?
Then of course you know all about the nuances of the area and the people. Wow…what on earth was I thinking about when questioning the statements you have made????? Next time, I just need to learn how to consider the source.”
You Virginians are SOOOOO mean. I see how it is here. Beat up on the yankee.
You better watch out or atkin s. is gonna accuse you of sourcasm.
I suppose you would hold in higher regard the opinion of someone from this area that has lived here seventy year, but does not share your side of the trench politically, whatever that is?
My interest in petersburg is the result of extensive research and a nationwide search, and I know others who resemble me.
Some people were just born here, or transfered here. Their advantage is that they FEEL the history, but maybe that isn’t such an advantage when it comes to assess a place.
“this is the MOST beautiful part of FRANCE, the MOST beautiful country in the WORLD!!”
When I lived in TX, a very popular bumper sticker read to the effect of “I wasn’t born here but I got here as fast as I could.”
“Help me out here. Why are you calling people idiots?”
1. residents of the tri-city villas
2. the gangs that do all the shooting btw halifax and so. sycamore.
3. Residents of boarding houses, transient or too irresponisble to get an apt.
4. various people who approach me saying “can I ask you a question?”
5. People I see littering, or yelling loudly at each other, or a ghost.
“Doesn’t that add to the stigma?”
Dude, I told you stigmas usually exist for a reason. I’d like to get rid of the reason, not re-educate people.
“Couldn’t you be a bit less condescending?”
That would be smart of me, wouldn’t it?
“My, My, My… what are we going to do with all those people who are attracted to charity and services? Hmmmnn? Maybe we can weed out the frauds and help those who are really in need.”
That would be a start. It apparently isn’t as easy as we think. Few things make me angrier.
Then, how do we define fraud? Or need?
What about someone who gets benefits because she has one child, and then has another? Is that fraud? Would she be as likely to have that second child if she knew she wasn’t going to get more $$?
Plus, there isn’t a whole lot of people who think people have a “right” to a home, utilities, etc — but a lot of people think that a child does, so people have children they cannot support, and teach them the wrong things.
Some people think that we should have more of that. That does not make a people strong. It makes them weak. And dependent. And resented.
Resented. Trust me.
“Of course, slumlords and filthy, unsafe houses are not acceptable, post #52 but let us not punish those who can not help themselves because of those slumlords. I am not talking “short-term facilities for those experiencing temporary social & economic problems”, I am talking about mentally retarded and metally ill human beings, who according to federal and state standards should not be referred to as “idiots” post #47. They will, for the rest of their natural lives need the clean and caring services of others, that post #52 spoke of, without being called idiots.”
I am not a landlord, slum or otherwise. I do not like renting to poor people, in general, for one thing. Now, before anyone goes on populist rant, please understand that I have learned the hard way.
Did you know that Idiot and Moron used to be offical terms? They aren’t now, of course, because the people they classified made those terms pergoritive.
When I was in elementary school, being called “retarded” was one of the worst things you could call someone. Now, in the north east, the word is in disfavor. When I was in high school, people would call you “special,” or “differently-abled.”
Negatives are negatives, no matter what euphemistic appellation you come up with.
“Sorry Post #53 for not answering your earlier question, but no, I did not read the lyrics of the original blues masters.”
Oh. Well, I assumed you had, since I was very into the blues in middle school, and I was only exposed to african americans starting in middle school. You’ve been one your whole life! So, I made a mistake. Lyrics like “I’m gonna beat my lady till I get satisfied” were pretty common. Songs about the devil, infidelity, drug use.. it all reminds one of hip hop. The “black” church absolutely got apoplectic over blues back in the day, and they HATED the jazz scene.
But heck, it sure did have one heck of an appeal. It even transended race. Even in places that were very racist. A lot of the “cool” people were attracted to it — until some time in the sixties. Then cool guys started forming groups called “the Experience” and such.
“I am just thinking that getting the lethargic, haven’t done anything on the triangle in thirty years population to give some attention to the process of how things work in the development of the community is something that had some merit.
It could have been gospel, jazz, blues, hip hop, any combination of that, or all of that, I really don’t give a duck. It was primarily local musicians who had the guts to get out there and participate without trying to analyze the crap out of what color of people came to wet their beaks at the well of opportunity to move forward.”
Well, I publicly lauded you for that, didn’t I? You might not have picked that up through all the sourcasm, but I did.
And heck, I know that I don’t agree with you about everything, but I congratulated you anyway. (sniff)
““Can we all get along?” has absolutely nothing to do with any admiration for the criminal Rodney King, now there is a true idiot, I only popped the question to underscore that we will never all agree on everything, thanks post #62 for making that clarification, you are among the sheroes.”
Thank goodness. I was worried. I can deal with someone who swears up and down that OJ was innocent, but not someone who thinks rodney king is a choir boy, and it is okay to kill white truckers and koreans to make a dubious point. About racism, no less…
I like this site too. Many of us are from totally different backgrounds. We might be wary of communicating directly if we were in the same room as one another. Phrases that are common in my circle may be seen as pretensious in another. Anger may be read as hatred, etc.
But in forums like this. We can say what we think, carefully rephrase if what we wrote was kinda dumb, and keep some personal distance.
People are far more polite in person, most of the time. And when they aren’t they are often too mad to be effective.
I type faster than I think, and I should probably be more careful. But I wouldn’t have time to post if I did.
Thanks post #56, your kings knight moving to the center of the board is just what I needed… I think I’ll ponder awhile about the differnce between checkmate, stalemate and win-win situations.
See you at the roundtables of discussions and the footsteps of action.
“your kings knight moving to the center of the board is just what I needed… I think I’ll ponder awhile about the differnce between checkmate, stalemate and win-win situations.”
Akin - I TOTALLY have to borrow that line for occasional use. I like that one. =)
“Thanks post #56, your kings knight moving to the center of the board is just what I needed… I think I’ll ponder awhile about the differnce between checkmate, stalemate and win-win situations.”
You are welcome. But center of the board is a powerful position.
A discussion like this is not a winable thing like in chess. First off, we bring different givens and assumptions to the table. What one person could see as a coup de grace, the other would see as a sign of weakness. The result can only be win-win, lose-lose, or stalemate.
Assuming no damage has been caused, this has been win-win, because I see a little bit about where you (and undoubtably others somewhat like you) are coming from and you see where I (and others) am coming from.
It is not a zero-sum game, and if it became so, I’d be out of here in a second — and the only car that the poorly-supervised mentally-ill could break would be yours, the only taxes to fund the police and education, would be yours.
You might even miss me, after a while.
You certainly will never be running against ME for office, and G. Ashliegh Moody is already using me as a political scapegoat, so I’m taken, and not worth much anyway.
My guard is down, I do not sense the danger, you can strike me any time you wish.
Just remember, one of the options is: lose-lose.
Half empty or half full? Your choice.
Why Akin, it can’t be one without the other…
Here’s an article for you to read:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/too_complex.html
Shawn said: “I suppose you would hold in higher regard the opinion of someone from this area that has lived here seventy year, but does not share your side of the trench politically, whatever that is?”
Do you really think that disagreement with your viewpoints,ramblings and otherwise gibberish on a little festival is politically motivated and based upon a diference of political ideology?
Shawn said: “My interest in petersburg is the result of extensive research and a nationwide search, and I know others who resemble me.”
A nationwide search for what? What was the criteria of this search? You see, I have lived around in different parts of the country as well as Europe. I know why I have come back to Petersburg a couple of times over the years. I know that cheap market for truly historic buildings drive others here. What brings you here to a place that you have so many complaints about?
It is not as if anything has really changed that makes Petersburg fundamentally different in the 5 years you have been here from the research you did.
Shawn, what were you doing a nationwide search for and why did this “extensive research” bring you to little old Peterspatch?
“Do you really think that disagreement with your viewpoints,ramblings and otherwise gibberish on a little festival is politically motivated and based upon a diference of political ideology?”
I can’t answer that. I am too lazy to list all the negative things I have been called that involve some politics or another. That doesn’t mean that YOU have a politcal motive in dismissing my opinion. I realize that.
All I asked was that since you dismiss how *I* percieve how the triangle is percieved by the locals so catagorically based on a short physical presence here — then it would be logical that you would also value any random local’s opinion about the question, no matter how contradictory those viewpoints may be.
“It is not as if anything has really changed that makes Petersburg fundamentally different in the 5 years you have been here from the research you did.”
I’m gonna send you down to the Petersburg assessor’s office. You’re going to be a hero.
I guess there is nothing fundementally different about china in the last ten years too. Let’s see: same ports, same deposits of tunsten and molydenum, same amount of arable land — wait! Different way of thinking about things.
Hmmmmm…. maybe you should ask G. Ashliegh Moody. He may have detected a change or two.
While you are at it, you might want to ask Alzena mayfield too.
Of course, you’ll get two different answers, but at least they are local answers.
“A nationwide search for what? What was the criteria of this search? You see, I have lived around in different parts of the country as well as Europe. I know why I have come back to Petersburg a couple of times over the years. I know that cheap market for truly historic buildings drive others here. What brings you here to a place that you have so many complaints about?”
Do you really want to know? I mean, for your own edification, and not to try to rip me for something?
“I know why I have come back to Petersburg a couple of times over the years.” Well, don’t leave me hanging! Why?
“What brings you here to a place that you have so many complaints about?” ME? Complain? Sure, I have complaints. But so does seemingly everyone who posts here.
I’ll make it real simple: Richmond-petersburg was at a tipping point in the early oughts.
Here’s an article for you and akin, zoneiv:
http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9340166
Post #71, does the article you suggested I read, connect to anything we’ve been talking about? I read it but missed it. Help a brother out, you know how us poor, illiterate idiots who rent where we live, tend to have perspectives other than yours.
You read it, but didn’t understand the context?
I never called you a poor, illiterate, or an idiot.
The people you choose to identify with are your choice. You are obviously not illiterate, but it is possible that you are sarcastic. If so, we’ve got things in common.
You have been using a lot of of populist, and even religious rhetoric in your responses to my posts, making me think you are perhaps “speaking to the gallery” rather than to me. When I show distain for a person, for example, you say I disdain charity, then make yourself sound like a saint, or someone who has given as much to charity as Warren Buffet or Bill Gates.
So, I figure that instead of trying to change MY mind, you are perhaps trying to change the minds of third parties, about me, or about you.
I will grant that I have room for improvement, but I do not intend to get into an arguement with you about who is the better person, or christian.
All I can say is thank you for reading the article. You know I would read one that you gave me.
Here’s another one for you, since you are a republican:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/04/republicans_blacks.html
Have a great day!
Of course I am speaking to the gallery. That is what this site is for, me thinks. You and I should get together for a cup of joe, you know, it would only help.
Heck no, I’m no saint, maybe a legend in my own mind, but I am working on that as we speak.
Thanks for the recognizing the similarities of our hillarities when it comes to sarcasm. (Sorry for the low blow, I don’t really think you hate poor people and idiots, just maybe a little fearful) That sarcasm tool however can play out rather quickly and cause one to drift off course, therefore I am also working on that character defect, if you will, in order to become a more effective communicationalist. (Is that a word?)
Or maybe some chess. I’m not very good, but I can play.
As far the the gallery is concerned, I prefer to be a spooky, disembodied voice.
I sure DON’T hate poor people. And the fear is not of the poor, but of bad ideas, and bad behavior. That stuff spreads like disease.
What I’d like to do is make them middle class. Teach to fish and all that.
“He who understands others is intelligent; he who understands himself is enlightened. He who is able to conquer others is powerful; he who can control himself is more powerful.
He who is contented is richer than the richest. Those who have purpose are resolute, and those who keep tranquillity of mind have endurance.”
-Laotzu
Not that these problems are confined to the poor, but it is heavily concentrated there.
I have other communication defects than sarcasm, as you have pointed out.
“communicationalist.” It is if you want it to be, and you use it with confidence. Reminds me of strategery. I wouldn’t use it at a job interview, but on TV, maybe.
Well, well,well. So much talk about race that appears to have gotten off on the beaten path. For the record, before I begin, I am African American. As a girl growing up in Petersburg, I was not allowed to go down to “The Avenue” because it did and still does have the presentation of a not so good area. I had an uncle who was a alcholic and “The Avenue” was basically his home. However, with my mother I could visit the avenue as that is where the African American Dr.’s offices were. There is where the dentist offices were. In other words, like every neighborhood, there is good and bad, the avenue is no different. Wherin it appears that the discussion is about the presence of race and not race itself, I must say that I somewhat disappointed with my race because the Ave. did have a lot of history, is surrounded by wealthy African-Americna Churches and not one of us has attempted to preserve the goodness of the Avenue until the formation of the Triangle Center of Development which includes the authors of Watch Ovem Gene. This book painted a wonderful picture of night life on the AVenue. I had another uncle who played guitar down there and once played with Churk Berry. I was shieled from the bad on the Ave and made aware of the good. To attend the Blues and Jazz festival brought back all of the good I knew about it. To me it did look like there were more people this year than last year and I was not disappointed in the number of whites who did not come. I was disappointed in the number of African-Americans who did not come. I don’t think it was an African-American event and race was not the issue. I can’t see us wanting whites to come to something we don’t even support. Like the first Juneteenth celebration, it was actually boycotted by the African-American population. I hear African Americans complain that there is nothing in the downtown area for us, I hear it all the time, yet, I can tell you that not even half of the AA population attended. Will AA attend the Nostalgiafest Probably. Why? I don’t know what the motivation is. We are slow to go to Friday for the Arts or a lot of other things. We still go to separate churches and attend separate events. That is only because we continue to see ourselves as separte.
The event was a good one. People who attended came to support it and would have done so no matter where it was. It is not a black and white thing, it was an “I want to go out and have fun thing and meet my neighbors and assist a young man in doing his part is bringing this city back to life thing.”
Richmond doesn’t think Jazz or R&B is dead.
“Both of those performances are free.”