March 22, 2008
Anyone want to work toward a Petersburg Dog Park?
In several conversations, on and off the internet, the idea of a local bark park has come up. Feel free to use this thread to brainstorm on the idea and maybe find a group of like-minded individuals willing to work toward realization of same. To get a sense of what others elsewhere have done very recently to get the balls rolling in their own community, check the several links below.
The evolution of the Church Hill Dog Park:
http://chpn.net/news/2007/09/08/animal-control-in-chimbo-park/
http://chpn.net/news/2007/10/01/towards-a-dog-park-in-chimborazo/
http://chpn.net/news/2007/10/09/a-name-for-a-doggy-park/
http://chpn.net/news/2007/11/09/church-hill-dog-park/
http://chpn.net/news/2007/12/28/church-hill-dog-park-update/
http://chpn.net/news/2008/01/04/chdp-site-now-online/
http://chpn.net/news/2008/02/04/sponsor-a-piece-of-the-church-hill-dog-park/
Wonder if funding for a dog park might be something that a grant could be written for and submitted to The Cameron Foundation under Community and Economic Development?
I’ve been taking my dog up to Barker Field, by Maymont and the Nickel Bridge in Richmond (when I have other business up there, anyway). There are people there who have been through the process of getting a dog park established, and who would have information to share.
There are short films of Barker Field on petersburgtv.com. It is not only a park for the sake of the dogs, it also exists for the dog owners, just as tennis players have tennis courts, or golfers have golf courses, or horse owners have riding trails.
I am not quite sure why there is a need for a “dog park”.
First let me say that I currently do not have a dog but have had many dogs through the years. I would avoid taking a dog to a “dog park” like the plague or where there was a large gathering of other dogs to begin with.
This may sound a tad inflammatory but I almost see a “dog park” as a place for the lazy dog owner. They can take their animal to an enclosed place and let them run around while they just sit and watch and perhaps talk to the other owners letting their dogs run around. They feel good about themselves that their dog is getting “execise” and they do not have to expend much energy in the process.
There are plenty of places around town you can take a dog to run, play frisbee, etc. It has been my experience that if your dog is truly well-trained, no one will give you a problem.
Just my thoughts
I started this thread in response to a question on the Referrals thread about dog parks. So that all comments in relation to same can be in one place, here’s what folks had to say on that thread on this topic:
I am assuming the person who wants one on Low Street wants it there because they live around that area. Does this really help people who live up in Popular Lawn or Walnut Hill? Do we open up “dog parks” all around the city to cater to those who want one in their own area because they can just walk out their house to it?
You mentioned the need for a fence so a dog doesn’t slip off for the Hills but then again those who say they want one in Churchill bring up how well-trained their dogs are when defending the need for a “dog park”. See how these two feelings are at odds with each other?
If a dog is well trained, then there shouldn’t be a need for a fence.
I do not understand how a “dog park” would make Petersburg a more attractive place to live. On the other hand, there should be an effort made for things such as skateboard and rollerblading parks. Give the kids some place safe and controlled to do things like this.
I am a dog lover so do not take any of my statements as being anti-dog. I simply do not understand the need for a “dog park” unless a person wants some place to take their untrained dog to run around and they do not have to worry about them getting loose. Spend that time you would just let a dog run with other dogs in a “dog park” actually training your dog. Your bond would get even closer and the animal would be a lot happier.
Again, there are a LOT of places in this area to take trained dogs out and let them run. So what if it isn’t within easy walking distance of your house.
Just my thoughts…
a) dog parks don’t cost much to install and add variety to the local offerings
b) I don’t see that it much matters where such a park were to be located — any two points in Petersburg are going to be far closer to each other than either of these points to Richmond’s dog park in the Byrd Park area
c) I fully agree about the need for a skate/rollerblade area — awesome idea. That said, there is no reason Petersburg can’t have both — in other words, these are hardly mutually exclusive/zero-sum propositions
d) a dog park is not only fun for dogs, but people — sure, I could walk a dog in my neighborhood, or at the Battlefield Park, for example, but a dog park would allow me to meet and get to know folks that maybe I don’t otherwise encounter in my daily routine.
Also, IMO, anything that increases the amenities in the area makes the city a more attractive place to be. Some of those amenities I might choose to use, others not. For example, I’m not personally inclined to play tennis or basketball. But that wouldn’t keep me from supporting the construction of, say, public tennis courts if we didn’t have any in town.
zoneiv,
I agree with you about there being a LOT of places you can take your dog to run around and play. If only the world were perfect….
In most better policed urban areas, you let your dog loose, the authorities will be on your case, or at least the people who are afraid of dogs. Here, things are lax. Yet, the little park around here that we used to take our dogs to for frisbee, etc now has a “dogs must be leashed” sign.
As far as dog park enthusiasts being “lazy” dog owners is concerned, I can’t really speak to that. I would suspect that there is some diversity that you are ignoring. I can DEFINATELY say that these owners are in the main a lot less lazy than many petersburg dog owners that seem to just leave their dog chained outside 24/7.
And perhaps owners in your catagory misapprehend the need of dogs to socialize with other dogs.
“I am assuming the person who wants one on Low Street wants it there because they live around that area. Does this really help people who live up in Popular Lawn or Walnut Hill? Do we open up ‚Äúdog parks‚Äù all around the city to cater to those who want one in their own area because they can just walk out their house to it?”
That’s sorta true, but I’m not THAT close. I am actually closer to several other parks, including poplar lawn.
My hesitations about poplar lawn are that it is 1. not a GIGANTIC park like Byrd park. 2. a ornamental park that some may feel a dog park would degrade.
“I do not understand how a ‚Äúdog park‚Äù would make Petersburg a more attractive place to live. On the other hand, there should be an effort made for things such as skateboard and rollerblading parks. Give the kids some place safe and controlled to do things like this.”
Perhaps you are not familiar with the culture you are talking about, or are hostile to the values and pastimes of this culture. In northern VA, for example, proximity to a dog park is a big selling-point. It just is. It doesn’t matter if it is stupid or not.
Also, a dogpark has nothing to do with giving the kids yet another thing to do. There are sports fields in battersea, augusta, lee park, near the high school, cameron and elsewhere. Most of these parks are under-utilized.
As someone told me on another thread, “you want a [skateboard park] start YOUR OWN [skateboard park]“.
“Does this really help people who live up in Popular Lawn or Walnut Hill?”
I know this is not actually your concern, but, yes, it does. It would prevent them from having to go to RICHMOND (many do). It would also help people from dinwiddie and prince george, colonial heights, etc, who want to bring their dogs to a dog park, and it will lure more people to petersburg.
I am no particular lover of dogparks myself. My dogs are, and for that reason my wife loves them too. I am much more like what you say your taste for dog-involved recreation is.
My desire hinges on two main themes: less drive, a more attractive petersburg.
If you would like a list of ammenities that petersburg’s children can ALREADY enjoy that I never had as a kid, I will provide that list. It is long.
re: fence — Sight hounds, for example, require fences if they are to be let off leash outdoors, no matter how lovely they may be. Different dogs come with different needs/responsibilities. (Note: this is a revised version of my earlier post, as it occurred to me that the earlier version might have read differently than I intended.)
chuck,
I would be willing to join an effort to establish a dogpark.
Be advised that it is my opinion that there are already WAY too many people/groups lining up to the public till of the cameron foundation and the city of petersburg. Besides the fact that it would be hard to reconcile a dogpark with cameron’s mission, a lot of people will be hostile to public $$s being used for such a purpose, and they’d probably be right.
A dogpark needn’t cost much money at all. Just a few signs. and trash barrels It doesn’t need to be fenced either, unless there is some kind of liability issues that the authorities feel need to be addressed. As I and tg have pointed out, not all dog parks go the formal, fenced-in route.
I would actually be against public money spent on the park, just like I am against public money being spent on a lot of special interests.
I think the CHDP had a great idea by soliciting sponsorship funds, and partnering with the local parks & recs foundation. Not sure if something comparable exists here?
Dog Park in P’burg would be great. I don’t care where it is. The dog park would be a great asset to our community. Dogs gotta run free. We take our Newfie to Barker Field at least couple times a week for him to socialize and a little for us too.
Brenda,
Thanks a lot for the historical links to church hill.
I am reminded of the business 101 admonition: Don’t Reinvent the Wheel.
:)
Shawn,
I can see how dog parks may be needed in a more populous are such as Northern Virgina or even Richmond but I just don’t see the need down here in old Peterspatch. You speak of all the parks that are around Petersburg and how they are underutilized. This is true but then again except for perhaps a picnic pavillion, I don’t know of any parks that actually offer anything else in terms of recreation.
The reason I bring up skateboard park, etc. is because I lived in a small town in another state that had recreational facilities for its residents such as bike/running paths, skateboard parks, etc. Petersburg really does not have too many recreational outlets.
I agree with you that no public funds should be used and I would have a problem with the Cameron Foundation would give funds for a dog park especially since there are far greater needs of the community.
“Perhaps you are not familiar with the culture you are talking about, or are hostile to the values and pastimes of this culture.”
I use to take my last dog (85 lb malamute/shepard mixed) everywhere I went whether I was going to the beach for a long weekend or perhaps up to Richmond for some outside event but I could not ever imagine taking a special trip to Richmond so my dog could run around and get some exercise. My dog certainly did not do without. There are plenty of places I could take my dog to run around here. As I said, I certainly am not anti-dog. I am not too sure why you think I do not understand the values, etc. or hostile to the culture. I am only hostile to people who do not take time to train their animals to behave in public. How many times do you see people out walking their so-called beloved dogs and the dog is straining on a leash choking itself? There are too many owners who need training.
Now I ask any dog owner on here. What is better for the dog. An hour running around with other dogs at a “dog park” or an hour of training with its master?
If a dog park becomes a reality then so be it. I would not have a problem with it but I certainly do not see the benefits of such a park that has been written in this thread and other threads that have been written. I just don’t get it nor could I ever see utilizing it for a number of different reasons but I would not stand in the way of anyone trying to get one established.
You reference about sight dogs is bit of a stretch to justify a dog park isn’t it?? (grin) I mean how many sight dogs are being trained within the city limits???
I discussed this with a friend who lives around Bryant Park who has two dogs. Her response was that many people do not clean up after their dogs and cannot control their dogs so it is best to have a dog park for those types of owners. She is actually afraid to take her two small dogs to this “dog park” because of the behaviour of the other dogs.
Just my thoughts….
zoneiv,
I think brenda mentioned sight dogs. I tend to mix people together here too. :)
I agree with you about training. But I don’t think the lack of a dog park will solve that problem.
I am glad you wouldn’t stand in the way. There is no way a dog park will be established if it takes away from others in this community.
It won’t so there is no reason to oppose it, since it will be an amenity (like a skateboard park) that will be open, but not liked, by all.
“but I could not ever imagine taking a special trip to Richmond so my dog could run around and get some exercise.”
It is not just about exercise. Even in richmond, you can get a hefty ticket for having your dog off the leash. That will likely happen here too —- but, the other issue is that dogs are pack animals, they need to socialize with other dogs. Even though we have 2 dogs, they get a LOT more excited when we approach a dogpark than just about anything else. I can only imagine what it’s like for one-dog owners.
“I discussed this with a friend who lives around Bryant Park who has two dogs. Her response was that many people do not clean up after their dogs and cannot control their dogs so it is best to have a dog park for those types of owners. She is actually afraid to take her two small dogs to this ‚Äúdog park‚Äù because of the behaviour of the other dogs.”
It sounds like someone is pre-judging a little. At Richmond’s dogpark, people generally are VERY good about this — there are even a few fascists there who keep the occasional misfits in line. These are people who care about dogs, not people who don’t care about other people, as you seem to be implying.
What we may be missing is that many people think that dogs should be allowed time to be just dogs, with other dogs. You seem to be of a camp that beleives that dogs should just be not only well-behaved, but also under the highest of self control by the standards of people. I agree that their are many untrained dogs out there, I just don’t think this is new, and I’m SURE the worst offenders are NOT the people who take their dogs to dogparks, as you suggest, but those people who keep them alone in their yards 24/7, often on a chain. Or those people down in nottaway county…
“Thanks a lot for the historical links to church hill.
I am reminded of the business 101 admonition: Don‚Äôt Reinvent the Wheel”
:-). And tracking down the Barker Field folks may also be productive toward that end, as Wendy suggests.
zone iv:
Dog parks can be a place to train a dog on proper socialization with other dogs. Dog training is a work in progress. Today’s rascal may be tomorrow’s RinTinTin. Or not. Furthermore, they can be a place where dog owners train other dog owners. I try to pick up information while I am there.
I adopted a fifteen-month old dog from a shelter. From what I have heard about his life with his previous owner, he missed out on essential socialization with both humans and other dogs (as well as missing out on nourishment and the ability to move around at all). After seven and a half months, he behaves better than he used to, but he absolutely benefits from being inside the fence (and yes, I take him on walks, and we are still working on “heel.”). I am trying to picture two dozen dogs socializing without a fence, and wondering how far the dogs would be likely to drift, even without the temptation of other dogs jogging by with zealous owners such as yourself (while avoiding us like the plague).
As for placing the dog park on Low Street, I think it is too close to houses. Even with dog owners cleaning up after their charges, Barker Field can stink a little in the summer, especially during a drought. It would be preferable to find a site further from habitation. Better to anticipate such problems than antagonize the neighbors. As for the distance, I would not mind any location in Petersburg.
Shawn: It is possible to have a smaller enclosure at the dog park for puppies, shy dogs, or dogs who are not physically up to the rough-and-tumble play in the larger area.
“the other issue is that dogs are pack animals, they need to socialize with other dogs.”
Shawn,
I don’t think that dog parks are detrimental in any way. I simply do not understand the need for them down here in Petersburg.
Yes…dogs are pack animals but that does not mean the pack is comprised of other dogs and that is what they seek. In a dog’s eyes, he/she can/should view the family as the pack that he/she belongs to and takes his/her place in that pack.
“What we may be missing is that many people think that dogs should be allowed time to be just dogs, with other dogs. You seem to be of a camp that believes that dogs should just be not only well-behaved, but also under the highest of self control by the standards of people.”
I am not too sure about your “dogs should be allowed time to be just dogs”. My dogs were allowed to be just dogs. This said, I have only had either working or sporting dogs. I tend to think that dogs get more satisfaction from carrying out what they were bred to do and have instincts for then simply playing around with other dogs in a dog park. My dogs got a great deal of pleasure pleasing me but that is a dog simply being a dog.
My dog (shepherd/malamute mix) was at a family event. There was another dog there (a very laid back lab). My dog would not let the other dog near the toddlers (that weren’t even mine) that were out in the yard. It is not as if the lab was being agreesive or anything. My dog simply kept the other dog away from the kids by knocking him away. My dog was acting upon instinct and was being protective of the kids that he really did not know in the first place. It was not as if he was vying for their attention. He did not attack the other dog. He simply knocked him away from the children a couple of times. I have many other stories like this about this same dog being protective over young, old, sick and even another dog when it was felt that any were being threatened or he felt they were defenseless.
This was a dog being a dog and acting out of instinct. This was not trained behavior. The trained behavior was me being able to control the dog so that protective trait did not get out of hand. A lab hitting the water to retrieve a duck is a dog being a dog. This is what a hunting dog craves and that is doing his/her job. When I lived in Germany I was amazed seeing a working sheep dog at work. This was a dog being a dog. Heck, Shelties are known to try to heard up birds out in the yard. Actually there was a story on the radio just the other day about how a sheltie would herd up the family cat upon command and drive it nuts. (grin) This is a dog being a dog.
I am not too sure what you mean about letting a dog be a dog. What does this mean? It has been my experience that dogs crave structure and a hierarchy within the pack and a role.
To Wendy,
I think it is wonderful that you adopted a dog from the shelter! I wish more would do it. You do have your work cut out for you. It has always been my rule of thumb that a dog needs a LOT of attention in its first two years when it comes to training assuming you got it as a puppy. You have to undo 15 months of no training but the bright side is that I am convinced that it can be done. My sister has been one to get dogs that have had a history such as yours and turned them around to be great dogs.
No doubt you have had frustrating times already and will still have some but the day will come that you notice that your dog starts to behaves the way you want it to. This will take time and patience on your part but you can count on the love of that dog because you have been the only one to really pay it attention.
Just my thoughts
“I simply do not understand the need for them down here in Petersburg.”
I guess that’s fair in much the same why I didn’t understand the need for a $4 million bond to be used for a golf course when their were clearly more pressing needs in Petersburg for that money AND the country club is right up the street.
That said.
IMHO, the “need” isn’t so much a “need” just a matter of hrmmmm maybe people would prefer not having to drive 30+ minutes if there was an alternative? I wonder how many people that currently either A) Drive to Richmond for a dog park or B) Own pets but just don’t go because it’s too far would end up using a tri-cities bark park?
I guess it’s good to get zoneiv’s views and input now - I would imagine these might be talking points to come up later if this comes to fruition.
zoneiv:
Thank you for your kind words of encouragement about the dog training. The combination of some training and the effect of the obligatory neutering operation conducted upon adoption from the shelter has calmed the dog down somewhat. He has his moments, however.
You ask in #14 whether an hour of training with the owner or an hour of running around with other dogs is better: why must they be mutually exclusive? There is more than one hour in a day (and I was told by the dog obedience trainer that dog training could be broken into smaller units of time). I enjoy work, and I enjoy play. I enjoy time with my husband and children, and I enjoy time with my friends. My dog seems to enjoy a bit of variety in his life as well, and if we can pull together a dog park without cost to the non-interested people, then we need to pursue the questions of where and when and how.
I’ve heard Poplar Lawn and the Low Street parks mentioned. What other places are possibilities? I would not like to see Poplar Lawn become Pooplar Lawn. Isn’t there any outlying area where the wear and tear of dog romping isn’t going to matter? I know I sound negative but if we choose a prime spot there will be more objections than if we look for a location that is not going to deprive people of their lawn. Even if they only use it occasionally.
[moderator note: I deleted this comment, as it appears the website gremlins posted Wendy's comment twice.]
Maybe a call to Parks & Rec would help identify some land they or the city owns that they’d be willing to allocate toward this purpose. Maybe along the river somewhere? Maybe near Lee Memorial Park? Maybe out near Richard Bland? What’s out west off of Washington? (Wild brainstorming here, as I really don’t know what’s outside the Sycamore & Crater corridors yet.)
Walnut Hill resident, adding two cents.
We own two big dogs, they get two walks a day (and each walk provides many opportunities for mini-training sessions.) However, we would still LOVE to take them to a dog park. We spent a year living near a dog park and saw that they greatly benefited from the interaction with other dogs and dog people, just as many people feel their children benefit from the social element of school.
Also, I benefited from the relationships I developed with other dog owners. It was a great place to see different approaches to training in action.
In addition, no matter how fast I run, I will never be able to give my dogs a proper leg-stretching when they’re attached to me. They are so fast and agile, I feel that it must be pretty important that their bodies get to really sprint and jump around once in a while.
Finally, a couple weeks with a sprained ankle taught me that it can be very difficult to exercise your dog properly when you aren’t physically able to walk long or far.
p.s. Lee Park? Vast sections seem under- or un-used. And the wooded terrain actually can lend itself well to a dog park. The dog park I used for a year was mostly wooded, with paths, and I think that was much better than just a big open fenced space. People went on walks with each other and with their dogs instead of just standing around. And a group walk was a great way for dogs to be socialized with less intensity. (Because they were focusing on the new smell around the bend instead of just each other.)
zoneiv,
I apprieciate your thoughts. One of my dogs is a shelter dog that looked like a black lab, but it became clear that she is all border collie, mind wise.
She has been a challenge, and i don’t have any “work” for her to do. My lab, is, as you say, a retriever, so that has been no problem.
Wendy,
“I am trying to picture two dozen dogs socializing without a fence, and wondering how far the dogs would be likely to drift, even without the temptation of other dogs jogging by with zealous owners such as yourself (while avoiding us like the plague).”
I am no zealot. My wife maybe, but not me.
Low street was picked by me because it is convienent but unused. Any where children congregate is out.
There is a fair amount of land just east of fleet street right before you cross the appomattox to ettrick.
I don’t know if it’s a park, but there is ample parking for the appomattox park across the street. The area I have in mind is unused land up a bit from the river. The land just adjacent to the river is used by slovenly fisherpeople. This is easily assertained by the amount of smelly (and sometimes sharp!) detritus they leave about.
re: the idea of using the paths in Lee Park — I could see that (or I guess even a fenced-in space, still applies) working with something like this.
Judging by comments made in this thread such as “let dogs be dogs” and that I do not understand the dog lover culture, etc., there is no doubt that some you think I am either anti-dog or a tyrant to my dogs since I keep on harping about training. I am really not that bad guy (grin)
I want to apologize if I have offended any of you by some of the blanket statements I made about “dog parks”. No doubt there are responsible dog lovers (i.e. they spend time with their animal, train, etc.) that want a “dog park” for various reasons. That said, I feel there are owners as well who see this “dog park” as a fenced in pen that they can put their dog while they socialize. They may be deluded into think they are a good dog owner by doing this instead of chaining up outside the house but does the fact that they may take their dog to this park make them a good partner with their animal? If they don’t really do anything else with that animal but take the dog to the “dog park”, let them run around with other dogs and simply just leash them up and take them home and put them back in the back yard again, can they be considered a good dog owner?
Just last night, my mother told me that a young man with his children came to the church yard. They had a dog with them that they put in the fenced off area that has a little playground. It was used as a pen. Now don’t you think there was some confusion on the dogs part why he/she was not allowed to be with the rest of the pack throwing playing and throwing around the ball? To me, this was simply being unfair to the dog.
A “dog park” would be the last place I would take my last dog for various reasons but simply put, the primary reason would be “dogs will be dogs” and I will leave it at that.
Now if someone wanted to start the initiative of building a dog training area with ramps, tires, etc. then I would be the first in line to say “great idea’ and would actually help hammer nails even though I do not have a dog. I see this far better then just having a big pen for dogs to run around in. If someone wanted to start a “dog club” where owners/dogs can get together for training, etc., then I would be all for that. This could be a place where new dog owners can learn about their animal from others. Who says that there cannot be a picnic as part of the socialization for owners and animals. The Wilcox lake area would be perfect for this type of idea. There is a lot of land around there that would not impact on others if they want to use the area for picnics, etc. I know there is a movement to have the lake restored to its former glory.
Approaching the city for a piece of this area and then getting donated lumber, etc. to build such a park would be a great initiative! It would take some committed people who would take care of it as well. I see this as being far better for the owner and animal then simply a big pen on a number of different levels.
Actually in the coming year, I will get another dog. It has been 8 years since my last dog passed and I am back in the area and somewhat settled in Petersburg. I have been exploring training the dog for “search and rescue”. I do not know anything about it and been reading up on it on the web.
There is a Virginia organization. I want to know what needs to be done with the dog when he is a puppy and teen before the S&R training takes place at an older age. A deciding factor for me would be if the dog could be a trained “S&R” dog as well as a good family dog as well. I think my last dog would have been perfect for the role but I really didn’t think of pursing something like this until he was much older and pass his prime. Anyone here has experience with this?
As I said, if someone wants to start an initiative like I described (i.e. dog training area/dog club) then I would be there to sign up. Something like this would be relevant to me and not simply a big dog pen.
Just my thoughts…
I too would be up for using such a space for training — maybe a collaboration with PetSmart or a local vet or ??? could be part of the program? I’m considering adopting a rescue dog in the near future, and given I haven’t owned a dog in my adult life, I would need a bunch of lessons myself.
tg,
Again, your “dog training area” and a dogpark do not have to be mutually exclusive. In fact, if enough energy were to be found to do both in the same location, it would be synergistic.
When I said “you don’t seem to understand the culture” I meant it as a general statement because I had no idea who you were. Now, I have a better picture, and I can still say maybe you don’t understand the culture, but with more specifics.
My father-in-law’s brother still works the family farm, and breeds chesapeake bay hounds. His attitude toward the dogs, and that of his customers resembles yours. The lovers of dog parks tend to be the URBAN middle class. Many are professionals, wihtout children, who cannot afford a place in their city with any real land. They spend a lot of time with the dog, but alone, and when they randomly see other dogs, leashes and politeness are involved.
If you are as serious about dogs as you say you are, then, these urban owners could possibly learn a great deal from you. Any place that could get the two different dog cultures TOGETHER could be a big draw.
The best dogpark in the richmond area could be anywhere, theoretically.
Wilcox lake sounds like a fine idea (I take my dogs up there a lot) — but since dogparks tend to be an URABAN phenomenon, somewhere in oldtown should be considered. There is lots of unexploited land there too.
To zoneiv: Yesterday I spent forty-five minutes to an hour with my dog at Barker Field, and I spent the entire time watching him (and a little on correcting him). He missed out on important socialization during his early puppyhood and he likes to play hard. I am also dealing with his desire to be dominant, although he is not mean. I sometimes have to pull him off other dogs if they are not enjoying his attentions (wrestling primarily, sometimes running them down). He is young and full of energy, and I want him to be able to wrestle, but not with my nine year old son.
Yesterday he found a lovely, young, much smaller female dog who kept him in line and had him rolling on his back. The other dog owners were also observing their dogs, and some were playing fetch. As there were only a handful of dogs and owners at the time, their behavior was observable, and every one of them was interested in the doggy interaction.
I do not disagree that dogs need to interact with people and be trained to behave well with them, their primary pack. However, if taken literally, your standards are so high and narrow as to discourage any dog ownership at all among us lesser mortals, especially those who have picked up dogs damaged by poor early months or years with other humans.
A dog training center such as you mention would be a wonderful addition at a dog park. Once we get a simple dog park established, and we’re all feeling pleased with our initial accomplishment, you could probably get a lot of support for that. If you were interested in spearheading that sort of a development, I imagine we would all be happy for some guidance.
To Shawn:
Per your response in #25, I was not referring to you as zealous, but to zoneiv, who sounds as though he/she (should I have picked up on that somewhere?) goes jogging with the dog. zoneiv just sounds to have a high energy level. Let’s harness it.
To Otilia:
Per #23, I am with you on not being able to give my large dog enough exercise. My running days are over, and even if they weren’t, the dog and I would have different speeds.
Walking trails and a creek would be a wonderful site for dogs. If there are no fences, and deer are in the vicinity, we would have to deal with that sort of distraction (possibly dogs running into the road during a hot pursuit?) Would there be a warning about the unleashed dogs posted for pedestrians?
Shawn (per #29): I agree about the dog park folks in Richmond being urban professionals, often without children or yards. (It is different out in the country. A friend of mine who lives in Prince George says her cat doesn’t even like going outside anymore because of the dogs who run loose.) I don’t mind a dog park in the downtown, as long as we are not harrassed by objections. I live in Walnut Hill, and it is not a problem to drive down there.
Judging from all that you and others have said here, small town and suburban dogs might as well be big city dogs. They are subject to leash laws and isolated in their homes and/or yards. I am going to get the backyard enclosed, and that will be good (now our dog is in the house all day) but it won’t be the same as his having dogs to play with.
To everyone: I am not familiar with all of these sites. They sound good. Would there be an interest in having them filmed and shown on petersburgtv.com? Would anyone be interested in showing any/all of the areas and discussing the pros and cons of each? Whatever is decided, if we can get any park approved, it is a no-lose situation.
“However, if taken literally, your standards are so high and narrow as to discourage any dog ownership at all among us lesser mortals”
Wendy,
First of all, I am not too sure how you can comment about my “standards” since I really have not written anything about them. (grin) I guess you think I really am a tyrant (grin).
Some things I trained him on was simply to see if I could get him to do it or not. It was a challenge. If he failed then it would not been that big of deal.
I did get him trained that I could throw a dog biscuit across the room to him as he was lying on his bed and he would not eat it until he got a signal from me. It was actually very easy to train. I could throw anything to him (including a piece of steak) and he would not eat it until the signal. Heck…this type of thing can be done while watching TV.
Why did he need to be trained in something like this? Well it was a challenge but he also got use to me taking things from his mouth (i.e. when he picked the treat up before I told him to) and he got use to the word “no”. Okay…you may ask again “what is the big deal”.
Well a byproducts of this training if he stuck his head near the garbage can, I could say “no” and he would simply move on by it. Secondly when a well meaning person at the beach gave him a good size steak bone, and he started crunching it down like a dog biscuit, I was quickly able to pry his mouth open and retrieve it before he did any damage to himself by swallowing the bone fragments. His health was at risk in this case. He was desensitized to me prying his mouth open.
See the cause/effect of some simple training? I still could never get him to “roll over” (grin)
My “standards” aren’t anything more then what you would find in ANY basic dog training book. If you want a good animal, then you need three elements. You first need to learn how dogs think. This is half the battle.
After that it is simply showing love and spending time with the dog during its learning period. For a puppy it is usually 2 years. Judging by my sister’s experience, the same time would be required for a dog like yours. Keep at it. Don’t get frustrated.
Dogs are VERY quick at learning. The learning just needs to CONSTANTLY be reinforced. They just need someone to teach them.
Speaking of my sister, EVERY time she saw my dog, she had him jump up on her so she could pet him. This is after I spent much time breaking him of that habit. Well she continued to encourage this behavior. This was before she had any dogs of her own and would say “it is no big deal”.
Well we were at a family reunion. It was an outside country type of event. I brought the dog. Well when he sees her for the first time, he jumps up on her. She was wearing a white sundress at the time. She got mad. The only thing I could say is “what do you expect when you everytime he sees you, you want him to jump up”. Well she learned her lesson (grin).
Dog’s first instinct is to please. He thought he was pleasing her by jumping up.
See what I mean about the importance of learning how a dog thinks?
The key to success is to set boundaries and inforce them. Letting them slide now and then only confuses them.
Too many times people get dogs as an accessory and they becomre frustrated when the dog doesn’t automatically act right. I am a dog lover and I have not had one for 8 years because I knew my lifestyle would not allow the time that the dog needed. It wouldn’t be fair to the dog. Now I am getting more settled, I feel I can get a dog once again.
If I have discourage people to own a dog by what I have written then I cannot really say I feel bad about it.
Just my thoughts…
we sound a lot alike in this area TG.
I believe that the writer speaking of “sight dog” was referring to sight hounds, like greyhounds, not dogs being trained for the blind. Many dogs, like sight hounds, cannot be unleased safely in a city because of a distraction that can pull them into traffic.
The dog parks in Richmond (Barker Field, the dog park at Rockwood Park) are great, but it’s a distance to drive from Petersburg.
I walk my dogs on a lead, but they love to socialize too. A dog park allows them to tumble and run (much faster than I am able, certainly, and while playing dog games) and interact with one another and other dogs without getting tangled in leashes.
A dog park is not for a “lazy” owner, as one poster put it. On the contrary, the owners must be vigilant to make sure their dogs are behaving and getting along with the other dogs.
Shawn, you’re losing me here. No ‘tg’ or ‘tg….’ has posted to this thread. ???
I take that back; tg4360 asked a short/sweet question that I copy/pasted in comment 4. But still..
Hey Mady — you are right, I was referring to sight hounds, as in Whippets and such. My parents have a Whippet, and I’ve heard horror stories coming out of the sighthound community about what can happen to the dog if such a dog tears off down the road (BTW, Whippets are known for blowing their owners off when they kick into chase and run with the wind mode; they are also known for being gentle, good with kids, low shedding, not much barking).
zoneiv–
By your standards I mean that you seem to expect all dogs to stay home until they are well trained. You also seem irritated that many dog owners are somewhat laissez-faire in the way they treat their dogs. Considering the relaxed attitude many parents take toward raising children, it is hardly a surprise. I find that dogs are a tad more accommodating than children. I agree with you that dogs are happier when they are well trained, because they know what is expected and they enjoy the positive reactions they get.
It is not really a problem, though, that you gripe about us mediocre authoritarians, as you do not oppose a dog park. You are even interested in a dog training/agility course. Are you interested enough to get involved in establishing one?
My dog is seriously food driven. I should try teaching him the trick of not eating the nearby food, but I can’t imagine him being able to do it. I’ve seen him eating acorns outside, perhaps one of the foods he resorted to when he was starving as a puppy. Getting into the garbage is one of his favorite tricks. However, he can roll over. I also am trying to teach him to “shake” –not his paw, but his whole body — when he’s wet. He seems to be catching on. There is something special about him catching on to what I’m trying to communicate. He is short on self control though, when an attractive nuisance shows up–rabbits, squirrels, deer, cats, runners, bicyclists, and so on.
Everyone: Once again: does anyone want to give a tour of one or some or all of the proposed locations for a dog park? You would not have to be on camera if you did not want, you could just narrate. Shay from PetersburgTV.com would be happy to film this, and show it on his website. We can get information about Barker Field at their website (google it) and there’s a dog park out on Iron Bridge or somewhere in Chesterfield, and I’m (probably) going to visit a small dog park at a church off of Forest Hill tomorrow. Then there’s the Church Hill and Chimborazo (spelling?) Park information. Is anyone interested in pursuing any aspect of this?
If someone puts together a tour I would love to go, I’m fairly new to P’Burg and would like to see potential locations. I haven’t seen many up here in Walnut Hill (where we live) but ..
Just a thought - does anyone know what is going on with all the land around the hospital once they move to the Crater Rd. corridor? Is there anything around there? (Just thinking that’s somewhat central - or I could be wrong - to many areas of Petersburg)
How about this: before scouting possible locations (and I think discussions with the city and/or the Willcox Watershed Conservancy — the entity in charge of Lee Memorial Park’s development — would be crucial early on in this regard, unless someone wants to donate part of their privately-owned parcel of land?), how about the group of us that are interested arrange meetings with the founders of Barker Field, CHDP, etc. to learn (as applicable) the steps they took, what they like about the physical aspects of their park, what they would do different, etc. — those insights might prove useful as we tour prospective locations in Petersburg. ??? If agreeable, I’d be happy to contact the CHDP folks about possible dates/times. I leave meetings with Barker Field and other parks to another volunteer(s) to set up. :-)
Also, how about everyone interested in working toward the dog park send me an email, and I’ll then send an email back with everyone else’s email, so that our collective head-scratching can go on off this site (really, the entire town may not wish to be kept that apprised of every little logistical detail), and then when we have a few solid options nailed down, we can put them up here for general input.
I have no problem at all with dog parks but I do wish as much interest could be generated in organizing an advocacy to save Petersburg’s old neighborhoods from illegal group houses, drug houses, vandalism, arson and abandonment.
Addressing JWM’s question, I’ve heard that the High St./Grove St. neighborhood watch was been super effective in that regard, through very active walking patrols and similar. Do neighbors in other footprints of town organize themselves to do similar? (For example, if there is an active neighborhood association in Walnut Hill, I’m unaware of it, though there should be as it’s not like there isn’t theft and such going on around here, or a need to pick up trash that folks drop wherever it suits them.)
“I have no problem at all with dog parks but I do wish as much interest could be generated in organizing an advocacy to save Petersburg‚Äôs old neighborhoods from illegal group houses, drug houses, vandalism, arson and abandonment.”
At LEAST as much energy is devoted to this issue James.
Establishing a dogpark is easy, and cheap.
What you are talking about takes LOTS of money, and navigating political minefields, and dodging lawyers and gun carrying criminals. It takes a LOT more energy. If you could trade the amount of energy going into this dogpark idea to neighborhoods, you’d be very dissapointed with the results.
The dogpark would HELP with your concern, as the only thing that fights blight is private money from new residents that push the drug addicts and the shiftless out of town.
Hello, as a dog owner, I think a dog park would be a great thing. I now drive to richmond just to take my puppy to go and play with other dogs. I mean a dog park would be a good thing.
No money but, yes, energy. It takes a lot of people organizing, going to council meetings, demanding action, writing letters to politicians at local, state & federal levels, demonstrating their demand that these matters are effectively addressed. Don’t think the dog park will really do that much.
“No money but, yes, energy. It takes a lot of people organizing, going to council meetings, demanding action, writing letters to politicians at local, state & federal levels, demonstrating their demand that these matters are effectively addressed. Don‚Äôt think the dog park will really do that much.”
The government is NOT in the business of redeveloping neighborhoods. Our neighborhoods are in the shape they are in because of the residents who live here, the abandonment/neglect of our buildings is due to a lack of demand due to negative perceptions, real and imagined, about the nature of petersburg’s inhabitants.
The more middle-class petersburg becomes, the more these issues will be addressed.
Whinning about it on capital hill will get the kind of results we’ve been getting for years — until private money and enterprise takes an interest in an area.
Asking council to take action is just an excuse to not take personal action. And most “organizing” just involves a lot of talking, and not doing.
(For example, if there is an active neighborhood association in Walnut Hill, I’m unaware of it, though there should be as it’s not like there isn’t theft and such going on around here, or a need to pick up trash that folks drop wherever it suits them.)
Brenda, we’re on Berekeley and when we moved here 2 years ago, I asked the lady across the street and she basically said their wasn’t a Neighborhood Watch. We wanted to join - our old ‘hood had block captains, phone trees, etc. etc. I was kinda shocked that Walnut Hill didn’t even have a type of homeowner’s group (a la the old one I used to own/mod: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/woodlandheights/)
Anywho…what’s the best email addie to use for sending you my interest in the dog park - just use the Contact info on PBurgPN?
With all due respect to the vast expertise evidenced, I have advocated and requested actions from the city that resulted in — guess what? — actions that made a difference in a neighborhood. Government has a vital role to play in the protection of its resources and redevelopment. And that role can be formed and directed by the people who are the constituency of that government. If HPF, Friday For The Arts, the Farmers Market building, Sycamore Rouge and other programs/places had not received support from the local government, these entities would either not exist or exist in a much weaker state of being.
The expansion of the Poplar Lawn Historic District — a government action — gave impetus to the protection & redevelopment of houses in neighborhoods that were entirely ignored before that action. Advocacy by common folks was a significant influence in the local government decision to seek that expansion
But, I suspect this exchange will go nowhere, so lets terminate it.
With all due respect to the vast expertise evidenced, I have advocated and requested actions from the city that resulted in — guess what? — actions that made a difference in a neighborhood. Others in Petersburg have done likewise. Government has a vital role to play in the protection of its resources and redevelopment. And that role can be formed and directed by the people who are the constituency of that government. If HPF, Friday For The Arts, the Farmers Market building, Sycamore Rouge and other programs/places had not received support from the local government, these entities would either not exist or exist in a much weaker state of being.
The expansion of the Poplar Lawn Historic District — a government action — gave impetus to the protection & redevelopment of houses in neighborhoods that were entirely ignored before that action. Advocacy by common folks was a significant influence in the local government decision to seek that expansion
But, I suspect this exchange will go nowhere, so lets terminate it.
Yup, the contact form will find its way to my email.
“But, I suspect this exchange will go nowhere, so lets terminate it.”
Well, it’s off-topic, but I apprieciate your opinion a bit better.
There ARE legit. roles for the govt, including HELPING protect person and property.
Does this mean you should leave cans of diesel in on your hardwood floor near your kerosene heater like some folks did just west of the governor’s school some years back? You won’t find the house it happened in, BTW, even though we have a decent FD in this town.
HPF, sycamore rouge, friday for the arts were started by private initiative. True, they are being/have been incubated by govt, but they will ultimately have to stand on their own if they are to truely be deemed successful.
Your opinion that a dogpark is not important enough to be persued is apprieciated and noted. But you need more money in the public till before you can support your arts programs. That means you need to attract more people you can actually tax. That means you need to give them access to things that they might have to travel to richmond for now: cool restuaunts (got some), decent bars (got some), dog park?
god help me, I swore to myself to end this but I have to correct your statement. I did NOT say dog parks are not important. I said this:
” have no problem at all with dog parks but I do wish as much interest could be generated in organizing an advocacy to save Petersburg‚Äôs old neighborhoods from illegal group houses, drug houses, vandalism, arson and abandonment.”
THE END!
JMW: not only do we need to clean up the drug trafficking and restore old houses, but we need to provide more recreation and parks for children as well. However, this particular thread is about a dog park.
A dog park is cheap and do-able as Shawn says in #44. If we can accomplish that, who knows what else we could be inspired to do?
In response to Chuck, #39: if you are interested, we can compile a list of the possible sites, and go scout them out. So far, I’ve heard Lee Park (is that where Wilcox or Willcox Lake is?), Poplar Lawn, Low Street, East of Fleet Street on the Appomattox, and the area around the hospital mentioned. Are there other areas to consider? Is anyone else interested in coming along?
By the way, I visited a small enclosed dog park on Forest Hill in Southside Richmond, at a Presbyterian Church near 45th or so. It was a modest but pleasant set-up, well-mulched, with several wooden benches, the double gate, plastic bags (for clean-up), a trash can and water bowls. My only criticism was that the fences were too low to prevent a jumping dog from escaping and running into the very busy nearby street. One of the dog owners said that she thought that the fence was low because of consideration for the neighbors.
Wendy - great insights. Yes, Willcox Lake is in Lee Park. Please forward a note (using the contact page) so the small gaggle interested in coordinating efforts can do so offline. :-)
Wilcox Lake is in Lee Park? Well I guess I learn something new every day :-).
Since I was a boy, they were always referred to as two different places. When someone said “Lee Park”, they were referring to the ball parks, tennis courts, etc. and when they stated “Wilcox Lake”, they were referring to the lake and the pavilion area. You never heard…”lets meet at the lake at Lee Park”.
None of this said is meant to dispute you in any way Brenda so please do not take is as such. I just honestly never knew that the whole area was referred to as “Lee Park”.
For details on what Lee Memorial Park constitutes in its entirety today (can’t speak to the past), I’ll see about finding/posting a copy of the Lee Memorial Park master plan, approved by City Council in 2004. Meanwhile, go to this thread and click the link associated with the Park’s registration form with the National Register of Historic Places, where Willcox Lake (2 Ls) is among the contributing elements. Also, meanwhile, page 1 of the master plan gives as the Park’s borders approximately the 300 acres bordered “generally on the north by Interstate I-85; on the northwest by Baylor’s Land and Defense Road; on the south by Norfolk & Southern Railroad tracks; and on the east by Johnson Road, Defense Road, and a line along the east bank of Willcox Branch north of the Willcox Lake dam. Willcox Lake … occupies the eastern edge of the park….”
JWM,
No! Don’t you see??!!
A dogpark will solve ALL of petersurg’s problems! All by itself.
If only you would believe…
Dogs are such a wonderful addition to our lives, as any pet can be. My husband and enjoy the time that we spend with our dogs and believe that they should have an opportunity not only to exercise but to socialize. Dog Parks create the atmosphere for dogs and humans alike to do both. Throwing a ball or frisbee requires the same energy from a person in a dog park as it does at any other park. If you feel that you personally need the additional exercise there are dog parks for humans called gyms.
We moved here from Carytown and had the opportunity to see Barker Field grow to the dog park it is now. I would like to say that while Low St Park may seem like a good option, there are things to consider when picking a location for a dog park. It should not exist in a residential area that would be in such close proximity to people’s home. We must, out of respect for one another consider the noise and smell that will be a natural consequence of having a dog park. Barker Field is a good example of having ample land between the park and homes. Low St Park also lacks a good drainage system. For those of us that already utilize the park we know that it can take days to drain after a good rain and in our most rainy seasons, can take more than a week. Standing water leads to stagnent water and that is not good for anyone. Low St Park aslo sits on a main road. People travel through there at unsafe speeds and do not seem to care if there are pedestrians. I do not believe that a dog park there would deter this poor behavior. There would also need to be rules to access the park. Most of the rules require common sense, so hopefully it will not be difficult for them to be followed. There are many other aspects to consider such as a source of water, fencing, volunteers to clean, clean up areas to hold bags, shovel, etc. No matter how long the list, a dog park is a goal well worth accomplishing.
It would be a wonderful addition to Petersburg to find an area that can be set aside for our beloved canines.
Alright Mary, You’ve convinced me at least.
Low st. park is out. Drainage. No wonder it is so lush!!
Another issue is parking.
I am not for anything near the hospital, but it occurs to me that there is a lot of land around cameron field that is unused….
Since you live in the area, what do you think about my east-of-fleet-street idea?
You gonna sweeney-todd that one too?
I finally see the light……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
There really isn’t that much land around Cameron field except for the parking areas which are filled up when they do have games/events there. These parking areas are used.
Other then that I cannot think of any other land down there and I did spend quite a bit of time down there during the summer and fall during my teenage years :-).
east of fleet st. (to see it on a map, click here and move your eyes to the right of the pinpoint doodad) — I like it as a candidate. Park-like setting along biking/walking trails, not near immediate residents, some parking…
I’ve done more walking west of Fleet Street along the river, but once again, trails sound great. And I agree with Wannabe Mary Mann that it is better not to put the dog park too close to people’s houses.
I’ve left contact information if anyone else is interested in working together on this. If someone else is working on it, please let me know if I can help.
Once again, we can put films on PetersburgTV.com, showing the potential locations. We can put out flyers to let other dog owners know what is going on (is anything going on? I’m willing to help).
Hey Wendy, I’m waiting for a few emails before sending out an email blast from which interested volunteers can start coordinating with each other. Look for an email mid/late this coming week (to give me time to verify whether a few folks that have expressed interest want to be part of such an exchange.)
Plagerism is sincerity. This link may help organizationally.
http://friendsofbarkerfield.org/BarkerFieldHistory.html
Will be posting interview with a boardmember of Barker Field in a day or so.
just voicing my support for a number of reasons. first, i’m desperate for a fenced-in area to let my dog run (she’s a cattle hound, and needs to run much, much faster than my long legs and our long leash will allow.) second, richmond is too far away for me to rationalize driving her up there for a ‘good run’ (although i’ve done so.) third, i’d love a relaxed place that isn’t at work to get to meet new neighbors, and finally (in response to the ideas about dog parks solving all of petersburg’s issues) i think that as i walk my dog through petersburg’s streets to the dog park, we’ll be increasing foot traffic through what might otherwise be popularly-untraveled paths; i can only believe (because i live on poplar lawn & i have seen the positive effect of us all walking our dogs there) that happy people walking their dogs make a neighborhood feel more friendly.
all that said, i’m in full support of this project, and wouldn’t mind leading a campaign to find the funding, even if we put up the funds ourselves. and yes, i work at a non-profit theatre, so i don’t have much money to throw around, but i’d consider a dog park a real investment. and i know i would reap the benefits…
Hey Wendy — I’ve not received an email from you so that everyone can include you on the email volleys re: meeting times and such. Can you please send me your email via this site’s contact page? Sorry if you are having to re-send as a result of the site maintenance this past weekend.
Brenda–I did leave a comment at the contact site last week, and I don’t know why it didn’t take. I also made a comment for the thread, but it didn’t show up either. I’ve left my phone number and e-mail again. It might not be your site maintenance (were you having glitches last week?), because technology and I tend to have an uneasy relationship.
[...] the spirit of not reinventing the wheel, I posted links on the dog park thread to what organizers in Church Hill have recently accomplished. Building on that momentum, and as a [...]
Hey Wendy — actually, we switched the site to a new host, as the prior host’s server was obviously overburdened (the molasses effect). I wonder if the contact form ‘broke’ in the switch — I’ll test it. Anyway, I’ve got your email and will add you to the distribution list — make sure it isn’t being blocked by your spam filter.
Wendy, what also might be happening is I think yahoo and aol accounts sometimes automatically send info@… emails to the bin; ditto ones generated by this site (e.g., the weekly-ish emails that go out to subscribers) that have links. If you have an alternative email address, that may work. Or again, maybe you can hunt for something that looks like it is from this site or about dog parks in your spam folder? (Meanwhile, I will still take a look at the contact form’s functionality.)
Ok (and yes I’m venting here and this seems to be the best place to do it…)
What the heck is with people SHOPPING AT THE MALL WITH THEIR DOGS!?
Is it just me or does that seem a little odd?
I’m sitting at Stony Point yesterday watching a girl with a hyper fuzzball dog attempting to look at clothes on a rack.
Then her dog tries to go after another and she can barely keep him back.
Taking your dog for a walk on a city street is fine but shopping at the mall doesn’t strike me as a place for dog walking.
Am I just nuts?